Why are most video poker machines made by IGT and Bally, whereas I have seen very few made by other manufacturers? For instance, I was just looking at the website of Konami. Konami's slots seem to be gaining fast in popularity, I see them everywhere. But it doesn't look like they even make a video poker type machine. WHY?
Question about slot manufacturers and video poker
A few years ago, Konami had a video poker game called Time Bomb video poker.
The base game was DDB. If you were dealt a flush (SF or RF also count.), the
next 5-20 hands (random with an average of 10) doubled the value of all
quads and the SF. The RF started at 3x + a 0.25% feed rate progressive. This
was analyzed by Bob Dancer in Strictly Slots. I never saw it in a casino.
Video Poker was basically a Bally product but when Si Redd left that
company, he asked for and got the rights to make video poker games. Si Redd
started IGT and the rest is history. (My mom actually knew Si Redd because
she worked for Bally's Aladdins Castle in the same complex during that
period.)
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From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Bob Bartop
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 1:12 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Question about slot manufacturers and video poker
Why are most video poker machines made by IGT and Bally, whereas I have seen
very few made by other manufacturers? For instance, I was just looking at
the website of Konami. Konami's slots seem to be gaining fast in popularity,
I see them everywhere. But it doesn't look like they even make a video poker
type machine. WHY?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks. I had wondered to myself before asking the question if there was some kind of lock on it. But I can't see how it would work. Sure, they could lock up a game name like "Double Double Bonus" but why couldn't someone else produce the same pay table and called it "x-y-z bonus"? There are so many possible pay table variations anyway.
I know I have asked about Aristocrat in the past and we even discussed on here a game that was at my local Indian casino (which they have since removed). (and I can't remember the name right now). It's just odd that there are all these slots out there and only IGT and Bally have a piece of the pie.
By the way, I'd love to get a look at that "Time Bomb" game you described.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "pyiddy" <pyiddy@...> wrote:
A few years ago, Konami had a video poker game called Time Bomb video poker.
The base game was DDB. If you were dealt a flush (SF or RF also count.), the
next 5-20 hands (random with an average of 10) doubled the value of all
quads and the SF. The RF started at 3x + a 0.25% feed rate progressive. This
was analyzed by Bob Dancer in Strictly Slots. I never saw it in a casino.
Video Poker was basically a Bally product but when Si Redd left that
company, he asked for and got the rights to make video poker games. Si Redd
started IGT and the rest is history. (My mom actually knew Si Redd because
she worked for Bally's Aladdins Castle in the same complex during that
period.)
A couple of reasons come to mind
- Not all manufacturers make a slant top that would be appropriate for a VP
platform, and even fewer have a bar top. Cabinet development is expensive,
requires regulatory approval, and must look nice enough to compete. There
is no reason to pursue this unless there is a reason to believe they could
make a significant dent in VP ship share. Which brings me to...
- VP players are notoriously fickle and superstitious, and often reject
things that look too new or dramatically different. The GameKing, GameMaker
and UCM platforms look like they're 30 years old.
- A lot of the ideas that are historically profitable are locked down by
intellectual property.
- A lot of the names that are among the top performers by coin in are
locked down by trademark.
- A lot of companies just don't know what makes a good VP game. Not sure if
anyone had a chance to see WMS "Big" Event Poker. It was shamefully
terrible.
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On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Bob Bartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com> wrote:
**
Why are most video poker machines made by IGT and Bally, whereas I have
seen very few made by other manufacturers? For instance, I was just looking
at the website of Konami. Konami's slots seem to be gaining fast in
popularity, I see them everywhere. But it doesn't look like they even make
a video poker type machine. WHY?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
slots have quick turnaround, casinos are always looking for something
shiny and new to draw players in. video poker, you can keep the same
old Game King running for years, even decades.
if a casino does put in a new VP machine, it'll likely be a multiline
game, and multiline video poker is patented by Action Gaming and
licensed exclusively to IGT.
given that, it's not surprising at all that most slot companies don't
bother with the VP market.
cheers,
five
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Bob Bartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why are most video poker machines made by IGT and Bally, whereas I have seen very few made by other manufacturers? For instance, I was just looking at the website of Konami. Konami's slots seem to be gaining fast in popularity, I see them everywhere. But it doesn't look like they even make a video poker type machine. WHY?
I think it's market domination more than anything else. And fading memory tells me that I once used to play a Konami video poker progressive in the skywalk of the Cal-Neva/Reno.
I read a book a long long time ago called Video Poker Mania by Dwight Crevelts, an ex Bally's employee. His video poker advice was along the lines of the Lenny Frome royal buster strategy. But he also gave his take on video poker history which went something like this:
The random-number-generator was initially developed for nuclear physicists who had to get sub-atomic particles to clash in order to explode a nuclear device. The wee little particles travel at random but do not naturally run into each other.
In the 1970's a programmer for Bally's came up with the idea of applying the RNG to a deck of cards and the video poker machine was developed. The first machines went into Sam's Town in 1976. They were 9/6 Two-Pair-or-Better. Initally they were a success as people lined up to take their turns playing the machines. But enthusiasm waned because of the big drop. Then some brainstormer thought up Jacks or Better which raised the paback--this brought the action on the machines way back up.
But Bally's execs made what I think will go down as the worst business decision ever made in the history of video poker. For some reason they didn't think much of the game. They thought the money was in slots. Si Redd, a Bally's employee, and his crowd had other ideas. Si's crowd agreed with Bally's to break away and form a new company. It's gone under various names over the years but the one that stuck was IGT. There was a 20 year non-compete clause involved.
The poor Bally's execs had to suffer through 20 years of watching the explosive growth of video poker before they could get in the game. ROTFLMAO!!!
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
Why are most video poker machines made by IGT and Bally, whereas I have seen very few made by other manufacturers? For instance, I was just looking at the website of Konami. Konami's slots seem to be gaining fast in popularity, I see them everywhere. But it doesn't look like they even make a video poker type machine. WHY?
I sure hated to see Sigma fade away from the video poker scene. They had games like Flush Attack, House a Rockin' and The Maxx, highly exploitable games. But, from what I know, it's no wonder they faded away. It got to where slot techs could not get parts for the machines. They had to start cannibalizing. So a bank of 10 Flush Attacks would be reduced to 8, then eventually to 6....and eventually to nothing. Damn Sigma!
Come to think of it, I don't think I ever seen a multi-game video poker platform from Sigma either, which is a no-no in today's competitive market. Sigma just plain and simple got out-competed.
I miss the Double Jackpot and Double Double Jackpot games the Frontier had. And, still in AC are the 5 Joker progressive game machines but as machines die, there will be less and less................... Already 2 less from a couple of years ago.
Joe
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
I sure hated to see Sigma fade away from the video poker scene. They had games like Flush Attack, House a Rockin' and The Maxx, highly exploitable games. But, from what I know, it's no wonder they faded away. It got to where slot techs could not get parts for the machines. They had to start cannibalizing. So a bank of 10 Flush Attacks would be reduced to 8, then eventually to 6....and eventually to nothing. Damn Sigma!
Come to think of it, I don't think I ever seen a multi-game video poker platform from Sigma either, which is a no-no in today's competitive market. Sigma just plain and simple got out-competed.