vpFREE2 Forums

Question about Multi-Game, Multi-Denomination Machines

#1

To all,
       On multi-game, multi-denomination machines....does switching
games switch the deck of cards being used? Does it re-seed the RNG?
Or does the same RNG feed all the different game programs from the
same chip? If changing games on the same multi-game machine does
change the deck of cards (ie. stream of random
numbers) then it wouldn't be as important to switch machines unless
there was only one single game type on that machine, would it?
       This question is meant for *anyone* (including Rob Singer)
because I really don't know for sure and I'm very curious about this.
Thanks!

~psychophysical

#2

IGT keeps all of it's internal information confidential. Therefore, I
don't think anyone knows the answer to your questions except the
developers. However, I think we can make some educated guesses.

There is no reason to have multiple RNGs as one will suffice for all
games. In addition, it is considered good practice to reseed RNGs or
risk the potential of someone learning the algorithm as has been done
in the past. Therefore, I would expect them to reseed it when switching
games and probably even more often. What mechanism is used to generate
the seed is anyone's guess.

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Psychophysical" <jimb777@...> wrote:

To all,
       On multi-game, multi-denomination machines....does switching
games switch the deck of cards being used? Does it re-seed the RNG?
Or does the same RNG feed all the different game programs from the
same chip? If changing games on the same multi-game machine does
change the deck of cards (ie. stream of random
numbers) then it wouldn't be as important to switch machines unless
there was only one single game type on that machine, would it?
       This question is meant for *anyone* (including Rob Singer)
because I really don't know for sure and I'm very curious about this.
Thanks!

#3

Dick,
    Originally I had thought the same thing you did that the same RNG
would provide the numbers needed in all the games for a machine. What
arose my curiosity is that many machines I see in casinos don't all
have similar 5-card draw format games on the menus. I've seen Bally
GameMakers with Keno and 5-card draw video poker games on the same
menu of choices. Also, I've seen the Pick 'Em game that uses 7 cards
instead of 5 or 10 in regular VP game on the same menu as "regular" VP
games. Now, it may very well be that each of these game programs is
basically a "filter" that draws on the same RNG chip, I don't know,
but with such a variety of possible games on the same menu it begged
the question of whether the same RNG chip and/or seeding supports an
entire diverse menu like that....
~psychophysical

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Psychophysical" <jimb777@> wrote:
>
> To all,
> On multi-game, multi-denomination machines....does switching
> games switch the deck of cards being used? Does it re-seed the RNG?
> Or does the same RNG feed all the different game programs from the
> same chip? If changing games on the same multi-game machine does
> change the deck of cards (ie. stream of random
> numbers) then it wouldn't be as important to switch machines unless
> there was only one single game type on that machine, would it?
> This question is meant for *anyone* (including Rob Singer)
> because I really don't know for sure and I'm very curious about this.
> Thanks!

IGT keeps all of it's internal information confidential. Therefore, I
don't think anyone knows the answer to your questions except the
developers. However, I think we can make some educated guesses.

There is no reason to have multiple RNGs as one will suffice for all
games. In addition, it is considered good practice to reseed RNGs or
risk the potential of someone learning the algorithm as has been done
in the past. Therefore, I would expect them to reseed it when switching
games and probably even more often. What mechanism is used to generate
the seed is anyone's guess.

Dick

#4

Dick,
    Originally I had thought the same thing you did that the same RNG
would provide the numbers needed in all the games for a machine. What
arose my curiosity is that many machines I see in casinos don't all
have similar 5-card draw format games on the menus. I've seen Bally
GameMakers with Keno and 5-card draw video poker games on the same
menu of choices. Also, I've seen the Pick 'Em game that uses 7 cards
instead of 5 or 10 in regular VP game on the same menu as "regular"

VP

games. Now, it may very well be that each of these game programs is
basically a "filter" that draws on the same RNG chip, I don't know,
but with such a variety of possible games on the same menu it begged
the question of whether the same RNG chip and/or seeding supports an
entire diverse menu like that....

I still see no reason for another RNG. As you indicated each game
program could maintain the internal data (filter) while the RNG would
provide the algorithm applied to the game data. For example, the
situation with 7 cards instead of 5 requires seven calls instead of
five to the RNG program. No change to the algorithm.

By the way, this happens all the time in secure system environments.
RNGs are used for secure communications and several different
applications may use the same RNG for different purposes. I know a
little about this since I ported security code to an operating system
many years ago.

Dick

···

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Psychophysical" <jimb777@...> wrote: