I'm pretty sure this was discussed here fairly recently. Unfortunately I am too stupid to find it with the search feature.
It's a new version I've seen pop up in some casinos, and it requires 7 coins for max bet. Instead of just a multiplier before the draw, there is also a multiplier after the draw.
My question is what it supposedly adds to the overall EV, if anything? As I understand it, regular STP adds about 1/4%. What about Double Super Times Pay?
thx in advance
The feature itself adds the same amount as the normal super times pay. So if
the original STP adds 1/4% then this will add 1/2%. I'm going off the top of
my head, but I don't remember it adding that much. But since draw multiplier
has the same probability and the same multiplier distribution as the deal,
the payback is just doubled.
But there's a hitch. Somewhere hidden in the help screens, it says that a
*dealt* royal flush with any *deal* multiplier awards the royal at 20x. The
cycle on that is in the millions but it does add a non-trivial amount to the
final payback.
I'm personally a huge fan of this game. Hit a straight flush with a 5x a
couple of times. It's a lot more exciting in my mind than STP, which I never
really got into. If you get dealt a good-to-monster hand, there's the added
excitement that you still might get a (better) multiplier.
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:23 PM, bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm pretty sure this was discussed here fairly recently. Unfortunately I am
too stupid to find it with the search feature.It's a new version I've seen pop up in some casinos, and it requires 7
coins for max bet. Instead of just a multiplier before the draw, there is
also a multiplier after the draw.My question is what it supposedly adds to the overall EV, if anything? As I
understand it, regular STP adds about 1/4%. What about Double Super Times
Pay?thx in advance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Not quite true. The original game had average multipliers of 4.05 and shows
up on an average of once every 15 plays so per every 18 plays you get 18.05
times the shown pay table. this adds between 0.27% and 0.28%.
Double Super Times pay has average multipliers of 4.01 so you are only
gaining about 0.06% not counting the dealt royal. Remember that you are
paying an extra coin per line on both the deal and the draw segments.
The dealt royal is mis-explained and mis-handled at videopoker.com. I
believe that you get 10x only if the multiplier was going to come up either
on the deal or draw and thus 20x only if it was going to come up on both the
deal and draw.
(My home casino does not have this game so if somebody gets a good look at
the real help screen, please confirm one way or the other.)
I have never gotten a dealt royal on a multi-line game (I have had them
twice on $1 single-line progressives.)
For those that played this at videopoker.com did you ever see a multiplier
show up on the draw when you stood pat with something less than a royal
flush?
Note: As most people here know the dealt royal is actually one in 649,740
dealt hands but hitting a dealt royal with both 10x's if I understand it
right is once every 225 dealt royals. An calculation of the add-on for this
is 5.99*800=4792/(4873050*7/5) or about 0.07%.
If the dealt royal was always 10x and 10x would add almost
18.6*800=14880/649740 or a little over 2.3% which using the pay tables
should at videopoker.com would be quite a bit over 100% EV.
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Jason Pawloski
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:38 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Question about Double Super Times Pay
The feature itself adds the same amount as the normal super times pay. So if
the original STP adds 1/4% then this will add 1/2%. I'm going off the top of
my head, but I don't remember it adding that much. But since draw multiplier
has the same probability and the same multiplier distribution as the deal,
the payback is just doubled.
But there's a hitch. Somewhere hidden in the help screens, it says that a
*dealt* royal flush with any *deal* multiplier awards the royal at 20x. The
cycle on that is in the millions but it does add a non-trivial amount to the
final payback.
I'm personally a huge fan of this game. Hit a straight flush with a 5x a
couple of times. It's a lot more exciting in my mind than STP, which I never
really got into. If you get dealt a good-to-monster hand, there's the added
excitement that you still might get a (better) multiplier.
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:23 PM, bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com <mailto:bobbartop%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
I'm pretty sure this was discussed here fairly recently. Unfortunately I
am
too stupid to find it with the search feature.
It's a new version I've seen pop up in some casinos, and it requires 7
coins for max bet. Instead of just a multiplier before the draw, there is
also a multiplier after the draw.My question is what it supposedly adds to the overall EV, if anything? As
I
understand it, regular STP adds about 1/4%. What about Double Super Times
Pay?thx in advance
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No. It's 1 out of 15 for the deal multiplier, and 1 out of 15 for the draw
multiplier. Trust me. I know.
If you get ANY multiplier on ANY dealt hand, you get a royal pay at 20x.
Trust me, I know.
The odds of being dealt a royal is (combin(52,5)/4) times being given a
multiplier on the draw (15) which turns out to be 9,746,100 games. Every
9,746,100 games, you are awarded 4000*20=80,000 credits. Thus the
contribution is probability times pay, which turns out to be
(1/9746100) * 80000 / 7 ~ .117%.
(You divide by 7 because you are placing a 7 coin bet to win 80,000).
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Howard W. Stern < howard.w.stern@earthlink.net> wrote:
Not quite true. The original game had average multipliers of 4.05 and shows
up on an average of once every 15 plays so per every 18 plays you get 18.05
times the shown pay table. this adds between 0.27% and 0.28%.Double Super Times pay has average multipliers of 4.01 so you are only
gaining about 0.06% not counting the dealt royal. Remember that you are
paying an extra coin per line on both the deal and the draw segments.The dealt royal is mis-explained and mis-handled at videopoker.com. I
believe that you get 10x only if the multiplier was going to come up either
on the deal or draw and thus 20x only if it was going to come up on both
the
deal and draw.(My home casino does not have this game so if somebody gets a good look at
the real help screen, please confirm one way or the other.)I have never gotten a dealt royal on a multi-line game (I have had them
twice on $1 single-line progressives.)For those that played this at videopoker.com did you ever see a multiplier
show up on the draw when you stood pat with something less than a royal
flush?Note: As most people here know the dealt royal is actually one in 649,740
dealt hands but hitting a dealt royal with both 10x's if I understand it
right is once every 225 dealt royals. An calculation of the add-on for this
is 5.99*800=4792/(4873050*7/5) or about 0.07%.If the dealt royal was always 10x and 10x would add almost
18.6*800=14880/649740 or a little over 2.3% which using the pay tables
should at videopoker.com would be quite a bit over 100% EV.From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
Jason Pawloski
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 4:38 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Question about Double Super Times PayThe feature itself adds the same amount as the normal super times pay. So
if
the original STP adds 1/4% then this will add 1/2%. I'm going off the top
of
my head, but I don't remember it adding that much. But since draw
multiplier
has the same probability and the same multiplier distribution as the deal,
the payback is just doubled.But there's a hitch. Somewhere hidden in the help screens, it says that a
*dealt* royal flush with any *deal* multiplier awards the royal at 20x. The
cycle on that is in the millions but it does add a non-trivial amount to
the
final payback.
I'm personally a huge fan of this game. Hit a straight flush with a 5x a
couple of times. It's a lot more exciting in my mind than STP, which I
never
really got into. If you get dealt a good-to-monster hand, there's the added
excitement that you still might get a (better) multiplier.
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 1:23 PM, bobbartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com > <mailto:bobbartop%40yahoo.com> > wrote:>
>
> I'm pretty sure this was discussed here fairly recently. Unfortunately I
am
> too stupid to find it with the search feature.
>
> It's a new version I've seen pop up in some casinos, and it requires 7
> coins for max bet. Instead of just a multiplier before the draw, there is
> also a multiplier after the draw.
>
> My question is what it supposedly adds to the overall EV, if anything? As
I
> understand it, regular STP adds about 1/4%. What about Double Super Times
> Pay?
>
> thx in advance
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That may be the contribution of a dealt royal to the ER, but it's not
the same as how much additional value it has.
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Jason Pawloski <jpawloski@gmail.com> wrote:
The odds of being dealt a royal is (combin(52,5)/4) times being given a
multiplier on the draw (15) which turns out to be 9,746,100 games. Every
9,746,100 games, you are awarded 4000*20=80,000 credits. Thus the
contribution is probability times pay, which turns out to be(1/9746100) * 80000 / 7 ~ .117%.
(You divide by 7 because you are placing a 7 coin bet to win 80,000).
Yes you're right, I didn't subtract the overlap. But it's tiny.
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 6:00 PM, King Fish <vpkingfish@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Jason Pawloski <jpawloski@gmail.com> > wrote:
> The odds of being dealt a royal is (combin(52,5)/4) times being given a
> multiplier on the draw (15) which turns out to be 9,746,100 games. Every
> 9,746,100 games, you are awarded 4000*20=80,000 credits. Thus the
> contribution is probability times pay, which turns out to be
>
> (1/9746100) * 80000 / 7 ~ .117%.
>
> (You divide by 7 because you are placing a 7 coin bet to win 80,000).That may be the contribution of a dealt royal to the ER, but it's not
the same as how much additional value it has.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Trust me, I know.
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Jason Pawloski <jpawloski@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes you're right, I didn't subtract the overlap. But it's tiny.
Trust me.
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 7:03 PM, King Fish <vpkingfish@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Jason Pawloski <jpawloski@gmail.com> > wrote:
> Yes you're right, I didn't subtract the overlap. But it's tiny.
Trust me, I know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"Howard W. Stern" <howard.w.stern@...> wrote:
The original game had average multipliers of 4.05 and shows
up on an average of once every 15 plays so per every 18 plays
you get 18.05 times the shown pay table. this adds between
0.27% and 0.28%.
Based on the Double Super Times Pay contest on the Atlantis web site...
If you get a pre-draw multiplier of 4x, and a post-draw multiplier of 4x, they *aren't* multiplied to get 16x, but rather added to get 8x.
Stuart (RandomStu)
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
That is correct. Also true in the casinos of course. Both the deal and the
draw multipliers have an equal probability of showing up and also the same
average value (4.01).
The Atlantis game is from the videopoker.com web site.
Playing the Atlantis contest has anybody gotten a multiplier on the draw
when standing pat?
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
RandomStu
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 7:06 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Question about Double Super Times Pay
"Howard W. Stern" <howard.w.stern@...> wrote:
The original game had average multipliers of 4.05 and shows
up on an average of once every 15 plays so per every 18 plays
you get 18.05 times the shown pay table. this adds between
0.27% and 0.28%.
Based on the Double Super Times Pay contest on the Atlantis web site...
If you get a pre-draw multiplier of 4x, and a post-draw multiplier of 4x,
they *aren't* multiplied to get 16x, but rather added to get 8x.
Stuart (RandomStu)
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yes... The number of cards held does not affect the probability of getting a draw multiplier
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 13, 2011, at 6:26 PM, "Howard W. Stern" <howard.w.stern@earthlink.net> wrote:
That is correct. Also true in the casinos of course. Both the deal and the
draw multipliers have an equal probability of showing up and also the same
average value (4.01).The Atlantis game is from the videopoker.com web site.
Playing the Atlantis contest has anybody gotten a multiplier on the draw
when standing pat?From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
RandomStu
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 7:06 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Question about Double Super Times Pay"Howard W. Stern" <howard.w.stern@...> wrote:
> The original game had average multipliers of 4.05 and shows
> up on an average of once every 15 plays so per every 18 plays
> you get 18.05 times the shown pay table. this adds between
> 0.27% and 0.28%.Based on the Double Super Times Pay contest on the Atlantis web site...
If you get a pre-draw multiplier of 4x, and a post-draw multiplier of 4x,
they *aren't* multiplied to get 16x, but rather added to get 8x.Stuart (RandomStu)
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Atlantis game is from the videopoker.com web site.
Playing the Atlantis contest has anybody gotten a multiplier on the draw
when standing pat?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Howard W. Stern" <howard.w.stern@...> wrote:
***************************
Have you seen the Leaderboard for that contest?
Dealt royal w/ 10X draw and 10X dealt multipliers = 240,000 credits