vpFREE2 Forums

Q Re Washington Tribal VP

#1

I thought I recalled some earlier posts to the effect that the "video
poker" VLTs at Washington tribal casinos will "force" you to win even
if you try to lose. For example, I thought that, if you're dealt a
high pair on a VLT JOB machine and discard the high pair, your redraw
will include at least a high pair -- or something even better if you
were already predestined to improve your original high pair had you
held it.

I'm currently visiting Seattle and wanted to see these curiosities in
action. I experimented playing one-coin on a nickel machine at
Muckelshoot Casino. Three times, I discarded a high pair, but each
time received zilch on the redraw instead of the high pair or better
that I expected.

The VPFree FAQ info on VLTs written by Linda Boyd and Bill Coleman,
and also the Washington Tribal Gaming FAQs that I accessed via a
VPFree link, say the skill is not a factor when playing these VLTs.
But my short experiment indicates that intentionally departing from
the correct strategy will usually make the outcome worse. At least
in that perverted sense, skill does seem to play a role in
determining one's result.

Obviously, I misunderstood the earlier posts. Can someone who knows
the Washington territory please clarify this for me?

FWIW, based on only about 20 minutes play at Mauckelshoot and 7
Cedars Casino, the distribution of outcomes "felt" comparable to the
8-5 JOB (+match card bonus) game that the machines purported to
offering.

Thanks
The GMan

#2

Linda, Harry, and Bill:
Thanks for your responses to my question. I'll be in Seattle for one
more day and will try to get back to a tribal casino to experiment a
bit more + check the "Help" screen as Bill suggested.

The machines at 7 Cedars did NOT have the IGT label (it was some
other insignia that I didn't recognize. I didn't check the labels on
the ones at Muckleshoot, but they appeared identical in every respect
to the machines at 7 Cedars.

The machines at both places required that the player hit the "Deal"
button TWICE to receive the intial hand. The Tribal Gaming website
explains that the first hit of "Deal" is the electronic equivalent of
buying a pull tab ticket, and the second hit of "Deal" electronically
scratches/pulls the ticket to reveal the outcome; however, with the
machines that play like VP, you also have to hold/discard/draw to get
the final result.

BTW, on one of my three attempts to discard a paying pair, I won
the "Match Card Bonus." That might have been a Genie's way of
restoring what I discarded. But on my other two experimental hands,
I did get zilch on the draw. On one of those, I discarded Kings and
drew what "would have been" [???] a third King if I'd held the first
two.

The GMan

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ggman444" <gleng4444@...> wrote:

I thought I recalled some earlier posts to the effect that

the "video poker" VLTs at Washington tribal casinos will "force" you
to win even if you try to lose. For example, I thought that, if
you're dealt a high pair on a VLT JOB machine and discard the high
pair, your redraw will include at least a high pair --

#3

I can't remember the brand either but only IGT uses the Genie, they
use the Match Card Bonus that you saw. And it's really interesting
that they refer to pull tabs, a Class II game. My understanding is
that all tribal casinos in Wash have a lottery server and base the VP

···

on scratch-off tickets (that's only a technical distinction) At 06:31 PM 2/18/2007, you wrote:

Linda, Harry, and Bill:
Thanks for your responses to my question. I'll be in Seattle for one
more day and will try to get back to a tribal casino to experiment a
bit more + check the "Help" screen as Bill suggested.

The machines at 7 Cedars did NOT have the IGT label (it was some
other insignia that I didn't recognize. I didn't check the labels on
the ones at Muckleshoot, but they appeared identical in every respect
to the machines at 7 Cedars.

The machines at both places required that the player hit the "Deal"
button TWICE to receive the intial hand. The Tribal Gaming website
explains that the first hit of "Deal" is the electronic equivalent of
buying a pull tab ticket, and the second hit of "Deal" electronically
scratches/pulls the ticket to reveal the outcome; however, with the
machines that play like VP, you also have to hold/discard/draw to get
the final result.

BTW, on one of my three attempts to discard a paying pair, I won
the "Match Card Bonus." That might have been a Genie's way of
restoring what I discarded. But on my other two experimental hands,
I did get zilch on the draw. On one of those, I discarded Kings and
drew what "would have been" [???] a third King if I'd held the first
two.

The GMan

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ggman444" <gleng4444@...> wrote:
>
> I thought I recalled some earlier posts to the effect that
the "video poker" VLTs at Washington tribal casinos will "force" you
to win even if you try to lose. For example, I thought that, if
you're dealt a high pair on a VLT JOB machine and discard the high
pair, your redraw will include at least a high pair --

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

ggman444 wrote:

BTW, on one of my three attempts to discard a paying pair, I won
the "Match Card Bonus." That might have been a Genie's way of
restoring what I discarded. But on my other two experimental hands,
I did get zilch on the draw. On one of those, I discarded Kings and
drew what "would have been" [???] a third King if I'd held the first
two.

That's puzzling, for I would have expected that on all 3 occasions you
would have triggered the match card bonus win to offset, at minimum,
the value of the discarded pair.

I'm hard pressed to imagine that a March Card Bonus machine in WA
State is anything other than a VLT. (Out of curiosity, was the
paytable the 8/5 BP that I've witnessed as the standard there?)

- H.

#5

I just returned from a month in Seattle. Unfortunately, I never saw
this thread because the library computers wern't working. I went to
several casinos, including Muckleshoot. Although I didn't play any VP,
I think it is unchanged (match card and genie VP). Like others, I was
surprised by your test. Might the reason be you bet only 1 coin?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ggman444" <gleng4444@...> wrote:

I'm currently visiting Seattle and wanted to see these curiosities in
action. I experimented playing one-coin on a nickel machine at
Muckelshoot Casino. Three times, I discarded a high pair, but each
time received zilch on the redraw instead of the high pair or better
that I expected.

#6

Ignore my previous post! This issue was resolved in another post
with a different subject line.

> I'm currently visiting Seattle and wanted to see these

curiosities in

> action. I experimented playing one-coin on a nickel machine at
> Muckelshoot Casino. Three times, I discarded a high pair, but

each

> time received zilch on the redraw instead of the high pair or

better

> that I expected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I just returned from a month in Seattle. Unfortunately, I never

saw

this thread because the library computers wern't working. I went

to

several casinos, including Muckleshoot. Although I didn't play any

VP,

I think it is unchanged (match card and genie VP). Like others, I

was

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "ggman444" <gleng4444@> wrote:
surprised by your test. Might the reason be you bet only 1 coin?