I seem to remember reading, I think, VP random referred to as pseudorandom number generator. Maybe I am remembering wrong. Is it correct term, does it exist as the term or is it different than random as in a live
deck of cards as opposed to electronic deck of cards?
Cheers…Jeep
Jeep,
Technically it could be possible to build in a “true” RNG into a gaming machine (generated from, perhaps, natural noise generated by a machine component), but suffice it to say that it’s relatively impractical.
So gaming machines use algebraic functions (“pseudo”-random number generator) to generate a stream of numbers that are relatively indistinguishable from a random stream when appropriate statistical tests are applied.
—In vpF…@…com, <whitejeeps@…> wrote :
I seem to remember reading, I think, VP random referred to as pseudorandom number generator. Maybe I am remembering wrong. Is it correct term, does it exist as the term or is it different than random as in a live
deck of cards as opposed to electronic deck of cards?
Cheers…Jeep
A slot is a slot is a slot, and vp is a type of slot. They all use pseudo-random number generators to simulate randomness. The difference is that in vp, you know there are 52 positions or cards (since most games are single deck, no jokers or extra cards) and each card is supposed to be equally weighted, meaning equal chances of appearing, in other words, one out of 52 for the first dealt card. In other types of slots, you don’t know how many positions there are and you don’t know how they have been weighted, but you can figure that out:
Hi there,
Then pseudorandom & random are the same ??
Cheers…
Before clicking response, I looked up pseudorandom at Wikipedia. To me interesting info.
Me thinks they not the same…
Cheers…Jeep
When I was on a spin poker joker play in Ely, Nevada in 2006 Gaming ordered the installation of new chips in the spin pokers. I asked the assistant casino manager why and his response was Gaming said the chips were getting to old.
Slots and VP use "pseudorandom" number generators, which use a mathematical function to generate the numbers used to decide which cards come up in VP, or which payout you get in slots. The math function has to be carefully designed to give numbers that are, by various mathematical tests, essentially random. If the function is not properly designed, it can give non-random numbers
A true random number generator has to use physical processes that are not predictable. For example, you can use radioactive decay, or "white noise" in the atmosphere. See https://www.random.org/ for the latter.
If done properly, a pseudorandom generator (PRNG) is as good as a true random one for gaming purposes.
The Wired article that was linked here by nightoftheiguana is interesting, because it shows what happens if the PRNG is not well designed - which the hackers were able to determine because they had access to the software. There was a similar case where a player figured out that the PRNG in a video keno machine was reset every day and had predictable number draws at the start of each day, but he wasn't cheating - he did nothing to the game or use any computing tools.
Edmund
On 8/22/2017 11:15 AM, whitejeeps@yahoo.com [vpFREE] wrote:
I seem to remember reading, I think, VP random referred to as pseudorandom number generator. Maybe I am remembering wrong. Is it correct term, does it exist as the term or is it different than random as in a live
deck of cards as opposed to electronic deck of cards?
Cheers.....Jeep
__._,_.__
Mickey are you sure this incident didn’t happen when all SpinPokers were taken out of service nationwide? I read there was a flaw where you could drop one coin into a SpinPoker machine and hit BET MAX and it would bet 45 coins. All machines had to be fixed (chips changed?).
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 23, 2017, at 4:44 PM, mickeycr…@…com [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:
When I was on a spin poker joker play in Ely, Nevada in 2006 Gaming ordered the installation of new chips in the spin pokers. I asked the assistant casino manager why and his response was Gaming said the chips were getting to old.
jeeps wrote: “Then pseudorandom & random are the same ??”
If you can’t see the patterns, then pseudorandom appears random to you. If you can see the patterns, then pseudorandom is not completely random to you, because, well, you can see some patterns where there should be none.
For example, some people might think this is a random pattern:
0101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101
Other people would say it likely is not, because it is missing some patterns, namely: 00, 11, 000, 111 and so on. Another way to look at it is that it appears that the next number is always the opposite, when the opposite should only appear 50% of the time (assuming it’s a coin flip).
Some gamblers are under the impression that results are meaningless, but in the real world analyzing results is very useful, it is called the field of “statistics”.
Among gamblers, baccarat players are perhaps the most aware that analyzing results can be fruitful. Of course good blackjack and poker players are also watching for patterns where there should be none.
hi
In the canadian keno deal. I “suspect” an onboard battery was dead in one machine.
Thus doing a reset every time powered down. Today all bookkeeping, stats & exact spot of shut down
are probably remembered. Especially if temporary power outage. Power comes on & loss or jackpot
is still there.
Si Redd, founder of IGT, made a vp game called Draw 80 before forming IGT. That game was used in many bars in many states. If put a quarter in it, pulled the plug and found the credit was gone; machine was
reset. The same 5 cards were dealt . Playing a set hold and discard pattern allowed one to beat the machine. This was before casino use. Geeze the first draw 80s had black & white tVs in them.
Pseudorandom
I believe random is random. So why call it pseudorandom. I think natural random makes more sense. In this case, any change from a true deck of live cards is change to favor the house, not players. I’ve heard
it’s done so regulators can check the machines for fairness. Sometime I feel the games are programed to grind the player down. My imagination tells me a 4kd brings an onslaught of losing hands, usually lasting
till 3/4 of the hit is gone. It’s very rare today to sit at a machine playing the whole day. Therefore, they are programed to pass the random testing. Intentionally programing a game to be “super” random ???
Finally… Does a deck of cards have to be dealt by a mathematical engineer to be random??
Cheers to all… A fun rant about random… Jeep