vpFREE2 Forums

Proper hold JOB 3 card royal vs. 4 card flush?????

#1

Dancer writes: << It's actually 98.37% [the royal flush-averse strategy] --- which is quite a bit less than around 99%. Still, it's a valid consideration. one reason to use this strategy is if you are picking up free play for somebody else while playing for stakes that would generate a W2G for a royal. ...If you had a "lot" of free play (say $1,000 or more) to pick up and didn't have an hour's time to play it off on quarters, using this strategy on a $1 or $2 denomination might be a "mostly safe" alternative. >>

The easier way to deal with this problem is for the person picking up the free play to play video blackjack. That game has no possibility whatsoever of generating a tax report. The VBJ rules in most casinos tend to be pretty bad, but rarely have a return much worse than playing a royal flush-averse VP strategy. You can play VBJ for as many dollars a hand as you please, and get it done very fast. The much lower variance of VBJ can be attractive, too. And if the person picking up the free play isn't a skilled VP player, he can probably learn quickly to play the VBJ a lot more accurately.

You know, just because you think of yourself as a VP player doesn't mean that's the ONLY game you can ever play. :slight_smile:

#2

WRX wrote: The easier way to deal with this problem is for the person picking up

the free play to play video blackjack.

···

This is excellent advice.

Here on vpFREE we tend to be “video poker centric” — but learning basic blackjack strategy and at least considering these machines should be a tool in a thoughtful player’s arsenal. It isn’t in my arsenal, yet, but it will be soon.

I’ve never actually considered teaching a class in video blackjack before as part of my seminar series (ongoing now on Wednesdays at the South Point). But, depending on the rules of the South Point game (which I haven’t checked at all — I actually don’t even know where the machines are but I’ll find out today when I’m there to play for the drawing tonight), it might make sense to do so in the future.

Thanx for the idea!

Bob

#3

WRX wrote: The easier way to deal with this problem is for the person picking up
the free play to play video blackjack.

If you can find 5 for 2 blackjack, that’s good, almost a fair gamble. maybe. 4 for 2 blackjack is about another -2.3%. Note 5 for 2 is the same as 3 to 2, and 4 for 2 is the same as 1 to 1. The difference is on the machines you almost always surrender your bet, even when you win, whereas on table games you typically keep your bet if you win. As always see wizard’s website for more info.

Another option on free play pickup is video roulette, I think single zero is -2.5% and double zero is -5%. I you can find video craps, possibly another good option. I think 3x odds is -0.5%. There are other options, so as always look around a bit.

#4

There are a number of free blackjack strategy programs out there,

that produce nice accurate charts. I have used them myself when I found good video blackjack games out there. There are also automated crap games that have very low house edges.

What would you teach in a class besides
the correct strategy?

A.P.

···

From: “Bob Dancer bobdance…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: “vpf…@…com” <vpf…@…com>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 12:22 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Proper hold JOB 3 card royal vs. 4 card flush???

WRX wrote: The easier way to deal with this problem is for the person picking up

the free play to play video blackjack.

This is excellent advice.

Here on vpFREE we tend to be “video poker centric” — but learning basic blackjack strategy and at least considering these machines should be a tool in a thoughtful player’s arsenal. It isn’t in my arsenal, yet, but it will be soon.

I’ve never actually considered teaching a class in video blackjack before as part of my seminar series (ongoing now on Wednesdays at the South Point). But, depending on the rules of the South Point game (which I haven’t checked at all — I actually don’t even know where the machines are but I’ll find out today when I’m there to play
for the drawing tonight), it might make sense to do so in the future.

Thanx for the idea!

Bob

#5

There are a number of free blackjack strategy programs out there,

that
produce nice accurate charts. I have used them myself when I found good
video blackjack games out there. There are also automated crap games that have very low house edges.

···

AP — Whether you personally have the capability or not of learning on your own from available resources does not mean that everybody has that capability. Some people learn better with a live instructor.

The same is true of my video poker classes. If you can master what’s available for free on the wizard of odds website (among other places) in terms of correct video poker strategy, you have no need for most of my video poker classes. Not everybody can or will learn that way and there is still a demand for a teacher.

You are absolutely free to decide certain beginner classes are not appropriate for you. Your knowledge level may well be beyond what I teach. But so long as enough people decide they get value out of these classes, and casinos like the number of bodies the classes bring in, I’ll continue to teach them.

Whenever I teach a class I get feedback on how popular the class was and what parts gave the students difficulties. If I taught a basic blackjack class and only, say, 10 students showed up — that would be the last time I taught such a class. One can make a guestimate beforehand on how many people will show up, but it’s always a guess. I have a better feel than most people would have for which ones of my classes will be popular and which will not based simply on my past experiences of teaching those classes. Whether you are a Bob Dancer fan or not, you surely can’t deny that I’ve taught lots and lots of classes and I’ve probably learned some stuff while doing so.

Bob

#6

Don’t get yourself in a knot there Bob.

I didn’t say you shouldn’t teach classes.

I have never demeaned your classes.

For all you know I might be a student of yours.

You must remember that there are many more variations of Video Poker than the blackjack that is available on machines.

There are a lot more strange combos
and decisions in video poker.

Since you can’t card count a video poker machine, then in my opinion there is nothing to learn other than the basic strategy.

I merely asked if you would teach anything other than the basic strategy ?

A.P.

···

From: “Bob Dancer bobdance…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: “vpf…@…com” <vpf…@…com>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 9:32 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Proper hold JOB 3 card royal vs. 4 card flush???

There are a number of free blackjack strategy programs out there,

that
produce nice accurate charts. I have used them myself when I found good
video blackjack games out there. There are also automated crap games that have very low house edges.

AP — Whether you personally have the capability or not of learning on your own from available resources does not mean that everybody has that capability. Some people learn better with a live instructor.

The same is true of my video poker classes. If you can master what’s available for free on the wizard of odds website (among other places) in terms of correct video poker strategy, you have no need for most of my video poker classes. Not everybody can or will learn that way and there is still a demand for a teacher.

You are absolutely free to decide certain beginner classes are not appropriate for you. Your knowledge level may well be beyond what I teach. But so long as enough people decide they get value out of these classes, and casinos like the number of bodies the classes bring in, I’ll
continue to teach them.

Whenever I teach a class I get feedback on how popular the class was and what parts gave the students difficulties. If I taught a basic blackjack class and only, say, 10 students showed up — that would be the last time I taught such a class. One can make a guestimate beforehand on how many people will show up, but it’s always a guess. I have a better feel than most people would have for which ones of my classes will be popular and which will not based simply on my past experiences of teaching those classes. Whether you are a Bob Dancer fan or not, you surely can’t deny that I’ve taught lots and lots of classes and I’ve probably learned some stuff while doing so.

Bob

#7

NOTI writes:

<< If you can find 5 for 2 blackjack, that’s good, almost a fair gamble. maybe. 4 for 2 blackjack is about another -2.3%. Note 5 for 2 is the same as 3 to 2, and 4 for 2 is the same as 1 to 1. The difference is on the machines you almost always surrender your bet, even when you win, whereas on table games you typically keep your bet if you win. As always
see wizard’s website for more info.

Another option on free play pickup is video roulette, I think single zero is -2.5% and double zero is -5%. I you can find video craps, possibly another good option. I think 3x odds is -0.5%. There are other options, so as always look around a bit. >>

A common rule set for VBJ is 1 deck, H17, D10, NDAS, NRS, LS10. This yields a house edge of about 2.75%. This is pretty comparable to double zero video roulette. It’s uncommon to find single zero video roulette. Sometimes you’ll find VBJ with substantially better rules. Unfortunately, often it will be on the slower machines with the big video displays.

I like the video craps idea. Though it’s not as fast as VBJ, and has higher variance, if you’re taking odds.

The goal in picking up free play is generally to get it done smoothly and efficiently. The person picking up the free play will be motivated to offer a better deal to the owner if he can get it done with a minimum of time and hassle. A percentage point or two in expectation one way or the other, playing through the amount of free play once or twice, isn’t a big consideration for those involved. If you can capture the bulk of the value, the mission has been accomplished. If you’re having your non-professional-VP-player friend play through the free play on VP, you should be asking yourself, how accurately do I really think he’s playing?

#8

When I pick up free play for somebody, I always play single line video poker for quarters and it will be 9/6 jacks or 8/5 bonus to reduce the volatility. I’m not aware of any casinos that do hand pays on this type of machine anymore unless it’s an old coin dropper, and as long as it’s not a progressive equal to or over $1200 no tax slips.

A.P.

···

From: “wrx…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 1:43 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Proper hold JOB 3 card royal vs. 4 card flush???

NOTI writes:

<< If you can find 5 for 2 blackjack, that’s good, almost a fair gamble. maybe. 4 for 2 blackjack is about another -2.3%. Note 5 for 2 is the same as 3 to 2, and 4 for 2 is the same as 1 to 1. The difference is on the machines you almost always surrender your bet, even when you win, whereas on table games you typically keep your bet if you win. As always
see wizard’s website for more info.

Another option on free play pickup is video roulette, I think single zero is -2.5% and double zero is -5%. I you can find video craps, possibly another good option. I think 3x odds is -0.5%. There are other options, so as always look around a bit. >>

A common rule set for VBJ is 1 deck, H17, D10, NDAS, NRS, LS10. This yields a house edge of about 2.75%. This is pretty comparable to double zero video roulette. It’s uncommon to find single zero video roulette. Sometimes you’ll find VBJ with substantially better rules. Unfortunately, often it will be on the slower machines with the big video displays.

I like the video craps idea. Though it’s not as fast as VBJ, and has higher variance, if you’re taking odds.

The goal in picking up free play is generally to get it done smoothly and efficiently. The person picking up the free play will be motivated to offer a better deal to the owner if he can get it done with a minimum of time and hassle. A percentage point or two in expectation one way or the other, playing through the amount of free play
once or twice, isn’t a big consideration for those involved. If you can capture the bulk of the value, the mission has been accomplished. If you’re having your non-professional-VP-player friend play through the free play on VP, you should be asking yourself, how accurately do I really think he’s playing?