vpFREE2 Forums

Proper hold JOB 3 card royal vs. 4 card flush?????

#1

I’ve been playing full pay JOB for years ever since I learned the intermediate strategy. I was always under the impression that a 3 card royal was higher than a 4 card flush in MOST situations. However… when I put in a few hands into Winpoker, it always comes out with the 4 card flush being higher than the 3 card royal!!

Example…if I put in A clubs, King clubs, 10 clubs, 4 clubs, and 7 hearts…Winpoker shows the 4 card flush to be much higher than the 3 card royal… with the 4 card flush earning 1.27 coin return to 0.77 coin return for the 3 card royal. It comes up this way with most any different 3 card royal cards…

I know I have to be missing something simple here. Can anyone set me straight???

Thanks,
Mike

#2

The rule I always use is a four card flush is preferred over a 3 card Royal that contains an ace and a ten. It might not be perfect but I find it is close enough, and easy to remember.

A.P.

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From: “acli…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 3:24 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Proper hold JOB 3 card royal vs. 4 card flush???

I’ve been playing full pay JOB for years ever since I learned the intermediate strategy. I was always under the impression that a 3 card royal was higher than a 4 card flush in MOST situations. However… when I put in a few hands into Winpoker, it always comes out with the 4 card flush being higher than the 3 card royal!!

Example…if I put in A clubs, King clubs, 10 clubs, 4 clubs, and 7 hearts…Winpoker shows the 4 card flush to be much higher than the 3 card royal… with the 4 card flush earning 1.27 coin return to 0.77 coin return for the 3 card royal. It comes up this way with most any different 3 card royal cards…

I know I have to be missing something simple here. Can anyone set me straight???

Thanks,
Mike

#3

I forgot to add that the logic behind my hold is that with the ten and the ace the straight is much harder to hit, and matching the ten doesn’t give you a paying pair.

A.P.

···

From: “acli…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com>
To: vpF…@…com
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 3:24 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Proper hold JOB 3 card royal vs. 4 card flush???

I’ve been playing full pay JOB for years ever since I learned the intermediate strategy. I was always under the impression that a 3 card royal was higher than a 4 card flush in MOST situations. However… when I put in a few hands into Winpoker, it always comes out with the 4 card flush being higher than the 3 card royal!!

Example…if I put in A clubs, King clubs, 10 clubs, 4 clubs, and 7 hearts…Winpoker shows the 4 card flush to be much higher than the 3 card royal… with the 4 card flush earning 1.27 coin return to 0.77 coin return for the 3 card royal. It comes up this way with most any different 3 card royal cards…

I know I have to be missing something simple here. Can anyone set me straight???

Thanks,
Mike

#4

I've been playing full pay JOB for years ever since I learned the intermediate strategy. I was always under the impression that a 3 card royal was higher than a 4 card flush in MOST situations. However.... when I put in a few hands into Winpoker, it always comes out with the 4 card flush being higher than the 3 card royal!!

Example.......if I put in A clubs, King clubs, 10 clubs, 4 clubs, and 7 hearts......Winpoker shows the 4 card flush to be much higher than the 3 card royal..... with the 4 card flush earning 1.27 coin return to 0.77 coin return for the 3 card royal. It comes up this way with most any different 3 card royal cards....

I know I have to be missing something simple here. Can anyone set me straight???

Thanks,
Mike

I'd double check the payoffs. In 9/6 Jacks or Better, there are a few
times that the 4-flush wins, but it's not nearly by that much.

#5

Mike asked about JoB and WinPoker:

Example…if I put in A clubs, King clubs, 10 clubs, 4 clubs, and 7 hearts…Winpoker shows the 4 card flush to be much higher than the 3
card royal… with the 4 card flush earning 1.27 coin return to 0.77 coin return for the 3 card royal. It comes up this way with most any different 3 card royal cards…

I know I have to be missing something simple here. Can anyone set me straight???

You are running your analysis with one-coin bet — giving you 250-for-1 for a royal flush. At that royal payout, 4-card flushes are more valuable than 3-card royals.

If you switch to betting 5 coins, you’ll see the ‘usual’ situation where 3-card royals are superior to 4-card flushes — except for a few exceptions.

If you follow the exception guide given by AP you’ll do WORSE than always holding the 3-card royal over the 4-card flush. Starting with AKT2 suited, holding AKT2 creates a 5.09 cent mistake (for a 5-coin dollar player) 21 times — i.e. with any 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, or 9 not of the same suit as the AKT2.

On the three times the fifth card is another T, AP’s rule is correct by 0.46 cents

On the six times the fifth card is an unsuited J or Q, AP’s rule is correct by 3.70 cents.

In the 30 possible fifth cards that are considered from that position, AP’s play loses 2.78 cents on average every time. He is correct that it is simple to memorize. He is not correct that it is a good idea to memorize it. (If you play 9/6 DDB, for example, AP’s rule works perfectly there — but not for 9/6 JoB)

Bob

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#6

I don’t think it’s that much harder to remember that you hold a four flush over RF3 if the RF3 has an Ace and 10 AND the unsuited card is higher than 9…

#7

I guess I should add for anyone that might not find it obvious…if that unsuited card that is higher than 9 happens to make a high pair, you hold that high pair instead. I didn’t mention it originally because if you are accustomed to playing JoB, holding a high pair over four flushes and over RF3s should already come instinctually.