vpFREE2 Forums

Promotional Posts (was: Home Base Casino- now valet noir com...

#1

Tom makes a very important point. Hosts employed by casinos are, by
necessity and management edict, discreet about their players. If word gets out that
they share personal information, they might be fired. This does NOT hold true
for self-employed hosts, or for services such as ValetNoir, which stand to
make additional money by sharing/selling personal information about their
players. Hosts (all types) have access to your name, SS number, address, credit
card numbers, financial/banking information, gambling habits, phone numbers,
e-mail addresses, and other personal info. The custodian of this info should
take privacy very seriously!

I stand by my original recommendation. Deal personally, in advance, with
casino hosts employed at properties where you might be interested in
playing/staying. The minor inconvenience of being an "unknown" for one visit is well
worth it--if you play up to the level you claim, you should not have a problem.
Be honest about your level of play and the games you play. If possible, give
details about your play at other properties--the prospective new host will
often call and verify your play with another property, thus reducing your
"unknown" quotient.

Brian

···

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 1/24/2005 5:54:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
tomflush@nyc.rr.com writes:

Harry - my worry about using VN's service is privacy. First of all the site
drops cookies on your computer and uses pop-up adds. We all know how bad
this can be. It's a safe bet that all kinds of email spam will result, and
your Internet Exploring will 'all of a sudden' have a lot more internet
casino pop-ups. More Junk gambling mail will be coming to your house.
The second problem , a privacy issue, is that of opening up ones gambling
kimono - think of it!
The site encourages you ( for maximum benefits ) to enter your win/loss ,
gambling habits, marker information - daily averages, and player card
numbers into a database. All sorts of foreign and internet casinos ( and
possibly the IRS ) would have access to this. The potential for abuse is
scary.
I have read their privacy statement, and frankly its not good enough or
secure enough for me:
http://www.valetnoir.com/privacy/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

bjaygold wrote:

Tom makes a very important point. Hosts employed by casinos are, by
necessity and management edict, discreet about their players. If
word gets out that they share personal information, they might be
fired. This does NOT hold true for self-employed hosts, or for
services such as ValetNoir, which stand to make additional money by
sharing/selling personal information about their players.

No possibility can be precluded, but I have confidence in VN's
reputability. Speaking for myself, I've encountered no incident that
would give evidence to my private information having been compromised
by VN.

Keep in mind that VN bears an accountability burden as well. News of
improper sharing of information will get around and no player will
look to their services if there is such an incident.

More importantly, their client casinos would have no part of a firm
that didn't respect player privacy in any respect. VN is a
representative of their clients and would soon find those clients
(Harrah's, etc.) deserting the ship if player data is abused.

I'm confident that there are sufficient incentives for VN to employ
the same degree of discretion and privacy protection as any casino
employee-host.

- Harry (not a VN shill :wink:

#3

Harry, I enjoy reading your thoughtful posts, but I must say for a
fellow of a certain age I find a surprising amount of naivete in
them. Clearly the value of a customer is much higher for a casino
than for VN. The casino can look forward toward a lifetime of losing
from a good customer whereas VN's value is a one or two introduction
max. Considering all the consolidation in the industry, once you
are "introduced" to one member of the brand, you are effectively
introduced to all the members. Even casinos with large vested
interest in being discreet about player's habits seem to have trouble
on this account, just ask Bill Bennet, evidently $8,000,000+ was not
enough incentive.

Once VN has worked through the narrow band of customers who both
gamble enough to be worthwhile, but yet have remained below casinos
radar screens, what's to stop them from selling names to cheesy
cruise lines and sleazy online gaming venues among other even less
appealing possibilities.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

bjaygold wrote:
> Tom makes a very important point. Hosts employed by casinos are,

by

> necessity and management edict, discreet about their players. If
> word gets out that they share personal information, they might be
> fired. This does NOT hold true for self-employed hosts, or for
> services such as ValetNoir, which stand to make additional money

by

> sharing/selling personal information about their players.

No possibility can be precluded, but I have confidence in VN's
reputability. Speaking for myself, I've encountered no incident

that

would give evidence to my private information having been

compromised

by VN.

Keep in mind that VN bears an accountability burden as well. News

of

···

improper sharing of information will get around and no player will
look to their services if there is such an incident.

More importantly, their client casinos would have no part of a firm
that didn't respect player privacy in any respect. VN is a
representative of their clients and would soon find those clients
(Harrah's, etc.) deserting the ship if player data is abused.

I'm confident that there are sufficient incentives for VN to employ
the same degree of discretion and privacy protection as any casino
employee-host.

- Harry (not a VN shill :wink:

#4

jaydavidson118 wrote:

Harry, I enjoy reading your thoughtful posts, but I must say for a
fellow of a certain age I find a surprising amount of naivete in
them.

Thanks for the kind words, Jay. (But, hey, how'd you figure out I'm
16 - going on 17?)

I plead guily on the count of naivete, within bounds. More to the
point, I make every effort to steer clear of skepticism. The latter
has a tendency to shut down (or prejudice) opportunities before
they've had a chance to demonstrate their value - or lack thereof.

What I cling to is circumspection. Let something flag cause for
concern and I proceed with great caution, Until then, I can come
across quite the Pollyanna.

Clearly the value of a customer is much higher for a casino
than for VN. The casino can look forward toward a lifetime of losing
from a good customer whereas VN's value is a one or two introduction
max. Considering all the consolidation in the industry, once you
are "introduced" to one member of the brand, you are effectively
introduced to all the members.

Once VN has worked through the narrow band of customers who both
gamble enough to be worthwhile, but yet have remained below casinos
radar screens, what's to stop them from selling names to cheesy
cruise lines and sleazy online gaming venues among other even less
appealing possibilities.

You've grasped the based economics of VN. Their success rests in the
assumption that there's a sizable market for their services that has
been underserved to date.

I can see merit in that just in reading various posts here. For
players with more limited experience, approaching a new casino is
fraught with concern. I'll own up to that in my early play, my
self-introduction to two casinos produced mediocre results at best and
I feel I might have been better served through use of a service such
as ValetNoir.

But your concerns about limitations of their marketing model are fair.
There's downside risk. In the worst case, they might sell out the
business and one can only speculate how new owners might treat a
business that's seen better days.

But many firms that we might do business with present comparable
risks. Typically we choose to engage one based upon reputation and
the reported experience of others - with some more aggressive than others.

While the jury may still be out on ValetNoir's assessment, I can say
that in my limited exposure to them I find nothing to be concerned
with. Everything looks fully on the up and up and I've found the reps
a delight to work with. (I've explored opportunies with them but
haven't actually booked a trip at this time.)

- Harry

#5

The selling of your information has already begun (or at a minimum
cross marketing). I received a request from VN to complete a
survey. I have no idea why I completed the survey however the focus
was financial and tax planning for gamblers. At the end of the
survey they asked if I was interested in information on the products
questioned in the survey. I clearly answered no. Today I received
email solicition stating I had requested information in the
survey. "Hello, In ValetNoir's recent survey, you expressed an
interest in financial services including taxes and investments.
This is our follow up to share with you our most successful large-
cap equities strategy..... blah, blah, blah . . . If you would like
additional information, please email me at mellis@opm32.hbs.edu or
call Maria Ellis at (973) 216-4181.". Check out that email
address. Anyone find that odd? .edu for someone trying to sell
mutual funds. The whole thing stinks and is of no value much like
VN. Christ, the company offers Harrahs (thats a tough comp to
score, not) New York, New York (VP waste land) and Stardust
(assuming it won't be tore down for Borgata West next month).

Also, it appears that VN has began emailing all the vpFREE memebers
as I am receiving email from them under the email address I use for
these yahoo groups.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

jaydavidson118 wrote:

> Harry, I enjoy reading your thoughtful posts, but I must say for

a

> fellow of a certain age I find a surprising amount of naivete in
> them.

Thanks for the kind words, Jay. (But, hey, how'd you figure out

I'm

16 - going on 17?)

I plead guily on the count of naivete, within bounds. More to the
point, I make every effort to steer clear of skepticism. The

latter

has a tendency to shut down (or prejudice) opportunities before
they've had a chance to demonstrate their value - or lack thereof.

What I cling to is circumspection. Let something flag cause for
concern and I proceed with great caution, Until then, I can come
across quite the Pollyanna.

> Clearly the value of a customer is much higher for a casino
> than for VN. The casino can look forward toward a lifetime of

losing

> from a good customer whereas VN's value is a one or two

introduction

> max. Considering all the consolidation in the industry, once you
> are "introduced" to one member of the brand, you are effectively
> introduced to all the members.
>
> Once VN has worked through the narrow band of customers who both
> gamble enough to be worthwhile, but yet have remained below

casinos

> radar screens, what's to stop them from selling names to cheesy
> cruise lines and sleazy online gaming venues among other even

less

> appealing possibilities.

You've grasped the based economics of VN. Their success rests in

the

assumption that there's a sizable market for their services that

has

been underserved to date.

I can see merit in that just in reading various posts here. For
players with more limited experience, approaching a new casino is
fraught with concern. I'll own up to that in my early play, my
self-introduction to two casinos produced mediocre results at best

and

I feel I might have been better served through use of a service

such

as ValetNoir.

But your concerns about limitations of their marketing model are

fair.

There's downside risk. In the worst case, they might sell out the
business and one can only speculate how new owners might treat a
business that's seen better days.

But many firms that we might do business with present comparable
risks. Typically we choose to engage one based upon reputation and
the reported experience of others - with some more aggressive than

others.

While the jury may still be out on ValetNoir's assessment, I can

say

that in my limited exposure to them I find nothing to be concerned
with. Everything looks fully on the up and up and I've found the

reps

···

a delight to work with. (I've explored opportunies with them but
haven't actually booked a trip at this time.)

- Harry

#6

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Schronce"
<cadreaming01@y...> wrote:

The selling of your information has already begun (or at a minimum
cross marketing).

Ditto. As soon as I got the their survey I was cheesed. If they
can't make a buck one way they'll try to make a buck another. I
don't know about you guys, but I'm unlikely to buy financial
services from an organization like this. My net assessment based on
my experience to date is to avoid these guys like the plague.

#7

Jeffrey Schronce wrote:

The selling of your information has already begun (or at a minimum
cross marketing). I received a request from VN to complete a
survey ... The whole thing stinks and is of no value much like
VN.

I'd have to concur, to an extent. The "survey", guised as an attempt
to guage the demand of financial services by players, was nothing more
than bait for a solicitation. Like Jeffrey, I expressed no interest
when completing the survey and yet received the follow up come-on.

I'm not soured on VN, per se (and am unclear why VN seems to draw an
antagonistic reaction from some rather than simply lack of interest).
But this move was ill-conceived isn't the way a relatively new
venture is going to build consumer confidence.

- Harry

#8

I was probably a bit "on tilt" when I wrote the original post having
received a solicitation on both of my email accounts from VN, so it
was rather antagonitic. I personally see little value in working
with VN in lieu of working directly with my established host. As
someone mentioned in an earlier post, industry consolidation, hosts
moving between properties and taking client lists with them, along
with other factors seems to negate the need for VN. I feel that VN
has used vpFREE to obtain marketing leads and is violating terms of
the group (my receiving email from VN in my email account used only
for yahoo groups evidences this). I particularly dislike the fact
that VN contributes nothing to the group, while seeking to make a
profit off of it. You will hear someone complain about Jean's tag
line on occassion, citing that she is advertising, however she
provides so much information here for free that I don't see a problem
with it (not to mention she is a super nice lady). VN on the other
hand only attempts to sell their service. How about giving us some
info on how to best maximize the host we are currently working with?
Let me know what kind of eats I can score with 4 hours of black chip
action at Mirage. Contribute to the society instead of simply
feeding off of it.
Harry you hit the nail on the head. A start up needs to focus on
brand strengthening during those first few years instead of branching
out into new services. Particularly when your product/service is a
relatively new concept (and dare I say innovative?), why branch out
into a service that is completely saturated (financial products)?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

Jeffrey Schronce wrote:
> The selling of your information has already begun (or at a

minimum

> cross marketing). I received a request from VN to complete a
> survey ... The whole thing stinks and is of no value much like
> VN.

I'd have to concur, to an extent. The "survey", guised as an

attempt

to guage the demand of financial services by players, was nothing

more

than bait for a solicitation. Like Jeffrey, I expressed no interest
when completing the survey and yet received the follow up come-on.

I'm not soured on VN, per se (and am unclear why VN seems to draw an
antagonistic reaction from some rather than simply lack of

interest).

···

But this move was ill-conceived isn't the way a relatively new
venture is going to build consumer confidence.

- Harry