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Progressive Question

Can someone tell me is there a formula I can use to calculate when a
progressive has turned the machine or bank of machines positive (100%
or higher?)
I have looked at the information and tables on the web, but short of
carrying them with me, I'm pretty much clueless when I'm in a casino
if a particular progressive is positive. The way I can usually tell
is all the seats are taken and people are playing quite quickly.

Also, would the amount in a .25 progressive simply multiplied by 4
for a $1 progressive with all other things being the same?

Thanks for any help,
Shari

Very, very approximate answer.
a 99% reset lacks 1% and thats close to $400 on quarters (not deuces)
and about $470 on deuces.
So, if the game is 8/5 Bonus (99.16%) you need about $400 to turn
positive.
If a 98% game, $800, etc.

···

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:58:43 -0000, you wrote:

Can someone tell me is there a formula I can use to calculate when a
progressive has turned the machine or bank of machines positive (100%
or higher?)
I have looked at the information and tables on the web, but short of
carrying them with me, I'm pretty much clueless when I'm in a casino
if a particular progressive is positive. The way I can usually tell
is all the seats are taken and people are playing quite quickly.

Also, would the amount in a .25 progressive simply multiplied by 4
for a $1 progressive with all other things being the same?

Thanks for any help,
Shari

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

"Can someone tell me is there a formula I can use to calculate when
a progressive has turned the machine or bank of machines positive
(100% or higher?)

I have looked at the information and tables on the web, but short of
carrying them with me, I'm pretty much clueless when I'm in a casino
if a particular progressive is positive. The way I can usually tell
is all the seats are taken and people are playing quite quickly."

Assuming no other ev enhancements (i.e. cash back, etc) and no
strategy changes, most people would use the linear approximation
approach which is taking (A) the delta or difference between the
100% and the current paytable assuming the RF pays a fixed amount
(usually the reset amount), i.e. 800 for 1, and (B) dividing this
delta by the contribution per RF on a per unit basis.

If you use 9/6 JOB as an example, then (A) is 100% - 99.54% or 0.46%
or 46 basis points in investment parlance. In investments, they uses
basis points since it's easier to work given 100 basis points is
1.00%. For every 1 unit increase in the RF, say from 800 for 1 (a
(4,000 coin jackpot) to 801 for (a 4,005 coin jackpot), the return
improves by a small amount - by about 1/4 of a basis point
(it's .2476 of a basis point). The (B) is simply 46 basis point
short-fall divided by .2476 or 185.7835 unit improvement in the RF
(185.7835 is the result of 46/0.2476) such that the RF must be
985.7835 for 1 (a RF jackpot of 4,928.92 coins)*.

Assuming I hadn't lost you yet, to get the contribution per basis
point, you would take 1/RF cycle * 10,000 (note that the 10,000
number is to standardize the unit contribution per basis point). In
9/6 JOB, the RF cycle is 40,390.55 such that [1/40,390.55 * 10,000]
will get you to .2476. The .2476 means that every 1 unit increase
in the RF will increase the game return by improve by 0.2476 basis
points on a linear approximation basis assuming no strategy
deviations.

In the 9/6 JOB progressives that I cheery pick, I only need the
quads to be at 27 for 1 (any quad pays 135 coins at max coins) for
the game to be positive or over 100%. Here, each 1 unit improve in
quads increase the return by 23.625 basis points.

Cheers.

* The correct answer with strategy changes is 976 for 1 (4,880
coins); however, we are assuming no strategy changes to make our
lives easier.

Once again, the formula is (A) / (B) where (A) is the difference
between 100% and the base paytable and (B) is [1/(royal flush cycle)
* 10,000] or [10,000/(royal flush cycle)] if that is easier to
remember.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eharas" <eharas@o...> wrote:

Can someone tell me is there a formula I can use to calculate when

a

progressive has turned the machine or bank of machines positive

(100%

or higher?)

Elliot and ford are exactly right, and that's really all you have to
do usually to find the best game to play. However, if you still
insist upon being anal about it (like I do), you can use WinPoker or
this site <http://www.gamblingtools.net/vp/vpanalyzer.html> and build
a table of returns that include strategy changes for each game you're
interested in. I bump up the royal by 10% until it's doubled, then go
by larger increments all the way up to 5x (I've seen progs at 4+
times, very rarely). I always carry this chart when I go to the
casinos. I leave off cashback from the chart but add it on when
evaluating games in the casino, since it differs between casinos with
the same game and is easy to add in my head.

Then, to be sure you actually achieve the higher return, you need to
have a strategy card that shows values for each hand. Hands that lack
3 cards for a royal increase in value by 0.005% of bet for each 10%
increase in royal value; those that lack only 2 cards increase by
0.074% of bet for each 10% royal rise. All other hands keep their
same value. Promote the royal hands appropriately as the royal rises
and you capture the added return.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eharas" <eharas@o...> wrote:

That's basically what I do. There are some fairly common pay tables for progressive games**. You only have to figure out the "100% point" (or whatever your favorite sweet spot is for progressives) once.

I made this chart using WinPoker and it took me only a few minutes for each game. I carry a similar chart with me when I go to Harrah's or the Ameristar here in KC:

JOB 8/5p 8666
JOB 7/5p 10519
DDB 9/5p 7775
DDB 8/5p 9515

carlos

**It just occured to me: Since the pay tables for progressives are fairly common, do one of the VP web sites have a chart that shows what the 100% point is?

Can someone tell me is there a formula I can use to calculate when

a

progressive has turned the machine or bank of machines positive

(100%

or higher?)

Elliot and ford are exactly right, and that's really all you have to
do usually to find the best game to play. However, if you still
insist upon being anal about it (like I do), you can use WinPoker or
this site and build
a table of returns that include strategy changes for each game you're
interested in. I bump up the royal by 10% until it's doubled, then go
by larger increments all the way up to 5x (I've seen progs at 4+
times, very rarely). I always carry this chart when I go to the
casinos. I leave off cashback from the chart but add it on when
evaluating games in the casino, since it differs between casinos with
the same game and is easy to add in my head.

Then, to be sure you actually achieve the higher return, you need to
have a strategy card that shows values for each hand. Hands that lack
3 cards for a royal increase in value by 0.005% of bet for each 10%
increase in royal value; those that lack only 2 cards increase by
0.074% of bet for each 10% royal rise. All other hands keep their
same value. Promote the royal hands appropriately as the royal rises
and you capture the added return.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

blaw57 <blaw57@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eharas" wrote:

http://videopoker.fws1.com/Condensed-prog.htm
courtesy of 5-card

Frank

That's basically what I do. There are some fairly common pay

tables for progressive games**.

carlos

**It just occured to me: Since the pay tables for progressives are

fairly common, do one of the VP web sites have a chart that shows
what the 100% point is?

blaw57 <blaw57@y...> wrote:
> Can someone tell me is there a formula I can use to calculate

when

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Carlos Lebron <calebr0n@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eharas" wrote:
a
> progressive has turned the machine or bank of machines positive
(100%
> or higher?)

5 Card's site has a a very nice list of LV progressives that show the location, paytable and point at which the game becomes 100%, 101% etc.

Chandler

···

At 08:46 PM 7/22/2004, you wrote:

**It just occured to me: Since the pay tables for progressives are fairly common, do one of the VP web sites have a chart that shows what the 100% point is?