Posting of good games on VPFree - should we?

[misscraps]

My husband went to the Orleans to pay off $25 in free play and overheard
some grouching at the new FP bank regarding people posting on VPFree about
locations of good games on the list. They think such posts "out" the whereabouts
of good machines to casino managers who read this list. I personally think
this is silly for several reasons.

First, I'm sure that there are casino managers on this list. If you assume
they are reading this site to find out where "good" games are, then you have
to assume they don't know their own inventory or paytables! Why read these
long posts when all they have to do is wander around their own casino to find
so-called good games?

Secondly, let's take the case of the Orleans. They remove all "good" games
- including NSU deuces and 9/6 JB, all of which pay less than 100% with
perfect play. Most players don't play perfectly to begin with, and many other
people who have no knowledge of strategy play these machines, just because they
notice the pay tables are a bit higher. So these machines, while "good" in
some sense, still will make money for a casino, and bring in more players
because word of mouth will spread the word that the casino has "loose" machines,
even though few people will actually have the knowledge, skill, and
discipline to play near the even level on these machines.

     So Orleans removes the "good" machines after years and years of having
them - ever since the casino opens. Certainly no one should attribute the
fact that these machines are suddenly removed to any postings on this list.
I've lived here over 5 years and have been on this list for about that length
of time. The machines existed.

        So we gripe about the "good machines" being gone on the list, and
I'm sure people were griping in person at the Orleans about the missing
machines.

        What happens?- they put in 2 banks with even better machines than
they had! If you assume that someone who works at the Orleans is reading this
list and then does something with the information they find out, you would
have to assume that they read all the gripes and put in good machines as a
result!

       It doesn't make logical sense to conclude in a paranoid fashion that
the managers will NOW read the list, see that someone mentions the locations
of 2 new good banks, and will remove them, because of the posts!

    Take the case of Caesars, which got rid of all their long-standing 9/6
JB machines. Complaints mounted at the casino and online, and walla! - a
bank of 9/6 was put back in. People were afraid to post that these machines
were back, because someone might read it here, and take them away again!
It didn't happen.

    While I admit I think many casino managers have dumb promotions, don't
know what they are doing, and probably could run their casinos in a better way
to bring in gamblers, that doesn't mean that they are so stupid that they
can't look around their own casino and find out what pay schedules they are
offering and what machines bring in people!

    If I were a casino manager, I would put in some 9/6 JB, NSU, 10/6 DDB,
and a few other "good machines." I would put these "good" games on multigame
machines along with Keno, "bad" Super Double Bonus or other games, and put
them around the casino. I would not put 2 of these next to one another. I'd
spread them around, here and there, so that no one could play 2 machines at
one time, and so that random gamblers would randomly play them.

    Then knowledgeable players might stumble on the "good" machines, but
they wouldn't hog them. And they would tell people what a great casino it was.
Word would spread among knowledgeable and unknowledgeable players. The
casino would win "best games to play" awards. Every once in awhile someone would
hit a royal or big payout on these machines, a bit more frequently than
usual because some knowledgeable people would play them more frequently - causing
everyone in the casino to feel it was a lucky casino.

At the nickel and quarter level, a few of these "good" machines are not
going to cost the casino much money, even if they were played night and day by a
knowledgeable player -- which WON'T HAPPEN! Other people will play, people
will play Keno. Even the so-called knowledgeable player may well get tired of
playing NSU Deuces and switch off to DDB or even Keno! I've done it, and I
know others do too!!! But these few good machines will bring a lot of
good-will to the casino. I have friends who come to Vegas and they don't know a
darn thing about VP, and I recommend casinos where to play. I often tell them
to play at my favorite casino!

    When casinos blindly remove all decent VP, they create bad will among
their regular players. Just a couple of days ago, my neighbors told me "I hate
the Gold Coast." Why? Because they like to play FP Deuces, and they are
all gone. Do the neighbors know how to play FP deuces with the correct
strategy - NO! We asked them, and they don't know a strategy chart from a chart of
the Atlantic. They simply noticed that the pay schedules were higher, and
played those machines. When the Gold Coast lowered the pay schedules, they
stopped going, and switched to the Palms.

    People are often creatures of habit and just like to play "my favorite
machine" - whether it have a good pay schedule or is the far right Deal or No
Deal. When a casino changes the machines, the regulars get restless.

    It doesn't make sense for a locals casino such as Orleans or Palms to
alienate its local players by wholesale slaughter of good VP, or for that
matter, to wholesale remove another favorite type of machine. These locals just
migrate elsewhere to Stations or Tuscany or Sam's Town or where-ever. As I'm
trying to point out, totally removing "good" machines, alienates
knowledgeable and unknowledgeable players alike. And that is why, sometimes, those
"good" machines are put back in soon after their removal - regardless of any
mention of the event on this or other online groups.

    Obviously, if a single "good" machine shows up somewhere, or a super
fantastic deal such as mistake in a promotion or a great progressive shows up,
it probably isn't wise to post it here -- if you do, too many people will rush
over, and that promotion or whatever might disappear quickly.

    On the other hand, if 10 machines go in, there is room for all, and I
don't see major harm in posting about it.

    I think it is really unlikely a casino is going to put in 10 FP machines
"by mistake" and then have to scour the internet to find out about their own
machines!

    As Judge Judy likes to say, if it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't
true.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[irdd3000]

    If I were a casino manager, I would put in some 9/6 JB, NSU,

10/6 DDB,

and a few other "good machines." I would put these "good" games on

multigame

machines along with Keno, "bad" Super Double Bonus or other games,

and put

them around the casino. I would not put 2 of these next to one

another. I'd

spread them around, here and there, so that no one could play 2

machines at

one time, and so that random gamblers would randomly play them.

i never have understood why they group them together in one bank...one
per bank would make more sense and then put one of those upto 100%
payback signs on the bank...makes the casino appear to have a liberal
payback throughout the casino...

[WP_SF]

My husband went to the Orleans to pay off $25 in free play and

overheard

some grouching at the new FP bank regarding people posting on VPFree

about

locations of good games on the list. They think such posts "out" the

whereabouts

of good machines to casino managers who read this list. I

personally think

this is silly for several reasons.

I think it's silly too, but I'll spare the analysis until this is
over, which should be any day now. My answer is obvious, but since I
haven't written any books, I obviously don't know what I'm talking
about. The only reason the game is still there is because it's the
second best game for the quarter to dollar player in town right now.
If it didn't have any competition, it would have been burned down by now.

I'm back in town on 2/1. I expect both these games to be gone by then.
No loss for me, but it's a good opportunity for those less well
bankrolled.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, misscraps@... wrote:

_________________________________________________________________________

paladingaming.net

[Charles]

I totally agree. Any casino manager or slot manager should be fired if
they don't know their inventory of games. Heck, even a mere slotperson
at Red Rock can bring up the inventory on a computer and direct you to
specific games. I did this earlier this week regarding All-Star Poker.
Unfortunately, some human decided to stack the machines with truly
terrible paytables. A whole new gaming platform and the machines just
sit there without players.
  

My husband went to the Orleans to pay off $25 in free play and

overheard

some grouching at the new FP bank regarding people posting on VPFree

about

locations of good games on the list. They think such posts "out"

the whereabouts

of good machines to casino managers who read this list. I

personally think

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, misscraps@... wrote:

this is silly for several reasons.

[Michael_Boutot]

You have been reading the 4 Queens play book. 10/7 DB on machines
along with 6/5 Bonus & 8/5 DDB. Guess what a lot of people play...

If I were a casino manager, I would put in some 9/6 JB, NSU, 10/6 DDB,
and a few other "good machines." I would put these "good" games on
multigame
machines along with Keno, "bad" Super Double Bonus or other games, and
put
them around the casino. I would not put 2 of these next to one
another. I'd
spread them around, here and there, so that no one could play 2
machines at
one time, and so that random gamblers would randomly play them.<

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, misscraps@... wrote:

[irdd3000]

I think it's silly too, but I'll spare the analysis until this is
over, which should be any day now. My answer is obvious, but since I
haven't written any books, I obviously don't know what I'm talking
about. The only reason the game is still there is because it's the
second best game for the quarter to dollar player in town right now.
If it didn't have any competition, it would have been burned down by

now.

ok...what is the best game???

[tomflush1]

He's probably refering to the OEJ at Sams Town, playing 2 machines at once.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "lv_nv_realtor" <irdd@netzero.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Posting of good games on VPFree - should we?

I think it's silly too, but I'll spare the analysis until this is
over, which should be any day now. My answer is obvious, but since I
haven't written any books, I obviously don't know what I'm talking
about. The only reason the game is still there is because it's the
second best game for the quarter to dollar player in town right now.
If it didn't have any competition, it would have been burned down by

now.

ok...what is the best game???

[pesach_kremen1]

I totally agree! The problem is that their are those players who will so overplay machines, including 2 at once, to the effect of squeezing out the regular players when the situation becomes positive or a promo makes it irresistable. We are our own worst enemies. As a result the casinos pull the machines. Your ideas are sound, spread out the good machines and have other games with them. The casinos exist for their stockholders, not for you to earn a living. If they have a good play, then go for it, but don't be a "hog." There are plenty of ways to come out ahead, and be a welcomed customer. When I was invited to the Orleans as a Stardust Customer, I was not happy with the VP I saw but I did discover some playable machines such as ACE$, 9/7 variation of DB where the KQJ paid 400 coins instead of the 2-3-4, some 5/8 BP at the bars and a good Keno Progressive with .3 comp/cash back plus offers. I hope my next trip that some of the new higher pays are there, but if not, I
am still ahead in comps, rooms, and offers -The casino is Happy and so am I. For those of u who have read my post thus far here is an interesting + opportunity if you are a regular at the Cal. They have a bank of 50cent/$1 most in this bank can be played as either that has 10/7 DB with 1000 coin bonus for a heart royal. If you get triple point offers, play at this bank, even with less than best play (I am not a 100.17% player at DB, more like 99.9), when you have the triple points (.3), the 1000 coin bonus (.1) even someone like myself is at 100.3 and I still get the rooms and meals. i am happy, they are happy - Now let's c if those of you who read this play it reasonably and don't destroy a nice bank of positive play games by playing 2 machines to the exclusion of all else!
  
misscraps@aol.com wrote:
          
My husband went to the Orleans to pay off $25 in free play and overheard
some grouching at the new FP bank regarding people posting on VPFree about
locations of good games on the list. They think such posts "out" the whereabouts
of good machines to casino managers who read this list. I personally think
this is silly for several reasons.

First, I'm sure that there are casino managers on this list. If you assume
they are reading this site to find out where "good" games are, then you have
to assume they don't know their own inventory or paytables! Why read these
long posts when all they have to do is wander around their own casino to find
so-called good games?

Secondly, let's take the case of the Orleans. They remove all "good" games
- including NSU deuces and 9/6 JB, all of which pay less than 100% with
perfect play. Most players don't play perfectly to begin with, and many other
people who have no knowledge of strategy play these machines, just because they
notice the pay tables are a bit higher. So these machines, while "good" in
some sense, still will make money for a casino, and bring in more players
because word of mouth will spread the word that the casino has "loose" machines,
even though few people will actually have the knowledge, skill, and
discipline to play near the even level on these machines.

So Orleans removes the "good" machines after years and years of having
them - ever since the casino opens. Certainly no one should attribute the
fact that these machines are suddenly removed to any postings on this list.
I've lived here over 5 years and have been on this list for about that length
of time. The machines existed.

So we gripe about the "good machines" being gone on the list, and
I'm sure people were griping in person at the Orleans about the missing
machines.

What happens?- they put in 2 banks with even better machines than
they had! If you assume that someone who works at the Orleans is reading this
list and then does something with the information they find out, you would
have to assume that they read all the gripes and put in good machines as a
result!

It doesn't make logical sense to conclude in a paranoid fashion that
the managers will NOW read the list, see that someone mentions the locations
of 2 new good banks, and will remove them, because of the posts!

Take the case of Caesars, which got rid of all their long-standing 9/6
JB machines. Complaints mounted at the casino and online, and walla! - a
bank of 9/6 was put back in. People were afraid to post that these machines
were back, because someone might read it here, and take them away again!
It didn't happen.

While I admit I think many casino managers have dumb promotions, don't
know what they are doing, and probably could run their casinos in a better way
to bring in gamblers, that doesn't mean that they are so stupid that they
can't look around their own casino and find out what pay schedules they are
offering and what machines bring in people!

If I were a casino manager, I would put in some 9/6 JB, NSU, 10/6 DDB,
and a few other "good machines." I would put these "good" games on multigame
machines along with Keno, "bad" Super Double Bonus or other games, and put
them around the casino. I would not put 2 of these next to one another. I'd
spread them around, here and there, so that no one could play 2 machines at
one time, and so that random gamblers would randomly play them.

Then knowledgeable players might stumble on the "good" machines, but
they wouldn't hog them. And they would tell people what a great casino it was.
Word would spread among knowledgeable and unknowledgeable players. The
casino would win "best games to play" awards. Every once in awhile someone would
hit a royal or big payout on these machines, a bit more frequently than
usual because some knowledgeable people would play them more frequently - causing
everyone in the casino to feel it was a lucky casino.

At the nickel and quarter level, a few of these "good" machines are not
going to cost the casino much money, even if they were played night and day by a
knowledgeable player -- which WON'T HAPPEN! Other people will play, people
will play Keno. Even the so-called knowledgeable player may well get tired of
playing NSU Deuces and switch off to DDB or even Keno! I've done it, and I
know others do too!!! But these few good machines will bring a lot of
good-will to the casino. I have friends who come to Vegas and they don't know a
darn thing about VP, and I recommend casinos where to play. I often tell them
to play at my favorite casino!

When casinos blindly remove all decent VP, they create bad will among
their regular players. Just a couple of days ago, my neighbors told me "I hate
the Gold Coast." Why? Because they like to play FP Deuces, and they are
all gone. Do the neighbors know how to play FP deuces with the correct
strategy - NO! We asked them, and they don't know a strategy chart from a chart of
the Atlantic. They simply noticed that the pay schedules were higher, and
played those machines. When the Gold Coast lowered the pay schedules, they
stopped going, and switched to the Palms.

People are often creatures of habit and just like to play "my favorite
machine" - whether it have a good pay schedule or is the far right Deal or No
Deal. When a casino changes the machines, the regulars get restless.

It doesn't make sense for a locals casino such as Orleans or Palms to
alienate its local players by wholesale slaughter of good VP, or for that
matter, to wholesale remove another favorite type of machine. These locals just
migrate elsewhere to Stations or Tuscany or Sam's Town or where-ever. As I'm
trying to point out, totally removing "good" machines, alienates
knowledgeable and unknowledgeable players alike. And that is why, sometimes, those
"good" machines are put back in soon after their removal - regardless of any
mention of the event on this or other online groups.

Obviously, if a single "good" machine shows up somewhere, or a super
fantastic deal such as mistake in a promotion or a great progressive shows up,
it probably isn't wise to post it here -- if you do, too many people will rush
over, and that promotion or whatever might disappear quickly.

On the other hand, if 10 machines go in, there is room for all, and I
don't see major harm in posting about it.

I think it is really unlikely a casino is going to put in 10 FP machines
"by mistake" and then have to scour the internet to find out about their own
machines!

As Judge Judy likes to say, if it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't
true.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

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