Possible tax changes

[James_Morgan]

An acquaintance of mine, who happens to play VP at a high level of skill, told me something yesterday.

I did not confirm this, so it may be totally false. However, if what he said is true, all gamblers need to be aware of the changes that may be coming.

According to this acquaintance, gamblers will no longer be allowed to deduct losses on their taxes. i.e. the deduction for gambling losses will be eliminated. This might happen as early as 2018. This is all part of the new tax proposal that is underway.

According to this source, this will not affect the ability to offset losses for those who file as a professional gambler.and is restricted to a change in how one itemizes Such losses would still be allowed as business expenses.

If anyone here knows more, please comment.

I know there are probably many people here who might be negatively impacted by these changes if they are enacted.

At a minimum, I suggest all gamblers who anticipate creating W2G events will want to pay attention to this situation and think about its impact before making any bets in 2018.

Or… My acquaintance is totally wrong. I sure hope that is the case.

QZ

[Ed_Miller]

From what I’ve read your source is wrong. As I read it in NYT, the change is that for professional filers, gambling expenses (i.e., travel, etc.) will be added to gambling losses and then deducted from wins. The main effect being that professional filers won’t be able to deduct expenses in excess of net win.

They’re increasing the standard deduction, though, so the change will probably indirectly have a negative effect on non-professional filers.

I’m not even remotely a tax expert though.

Ed

···

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 6:55 AM, what7do7you7w…@…com [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

An acquaintance of mine, who happens to play VP at a high level of skill, told me something yesterday.

I did not confirm this, so it may be totally false. However, if what he said is true, all gamblers need to be aware of the changes that may be coming.

According to this acquaintance, gamblers will no longer be allowed to deduct losses on their taxes. i.e. the deduction for gambling losses will be eliminated. This might happen as early as 2018. This is all part of the new tax proposal that is underway.

According to this source, this will not affect the ability to offset losses for those who file as a professional gambler.and is restricted to a change in how one itemizes Such losses would still be allowed as business expenses.

If anyone here knows more, please comment.

I know there are probably many people here who might be negatively impacted by these changes if they are enacted.

At a minimum, I suggest all gamblers who anticipate creating W2G events will want to pay attention to this situation and think about its impact before making any bets in 2018.

Or… My acquaintance is totally wrong. I sure hope that is the case.

QZ

[lfcmja]

—In vpF…@…com, <ed.miller@…> wrote :

From what I’ve read your source is wrong. As I read it in NYT, the change is that for professional filers, gambling expenses (i.e., travel, etc.) will be added to gambling losses and then deducted from wins. The main effect being that professional filers won’t be able to deduct expenses in excess of net win.

They’re increasing the standard deduction, though, so the change will probably indirectly have a negative effect on non-professional filers.

I’m not even remotely a tax expert though.

Ed

···

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 6:55 AM, what7do7you7want@… [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

An acquaintance of mine, who happens to play VP at a high level of skill, told me something yesterday.

I did not confirm this, so it may be totally false. However, if what he said is true, all gamblers need to be aware of the changes that may be coming.

According to this acquaintance, gamblers will no longer be allowed to deduct losses on their taxes. i.e. the deduction for gambling losses will be eliminated. This might happen as early as 2018. This is all part of the new tax proposal that is underway.

According to this source, this will not affect the ability to offset losses for those who file as a professional gambler.and is restricted to a change in how one itemizes Such losses would still be allowed as business expenses.

If anyone here knows more, please comment.

I know there are probably many people here who might be negatively impacted by these changes if they are enacted.

At a minimum, I suggest all gamblers who anticipate creating W2G events will want to pay attention to this situation and think about its impact before making any bets in 2018.

Or… My acquaintance is totally wrong. I sure hope that is the case.

QZ

Now that its law…

Does anyone else have any further info on this extremely important topic to vp players ?

[lfcmja]

Hmm…reply didn’t post.

Anyway since most members are rec players does anyone have any further news in re to deducting losses ?

For me if losses aren’t deductible I am finished with VP .

LF

[lobo1971l]

I am a 1, 2, and 5 dollar player this would impact me greatly if I couldn’t deduct
my winnings against my losses.

I probably have 40000.00 in taxable jackpots this year but I’ve lost around 57000.00

···

-----Original Message-----

From: lfc…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com>

To: vpFREE <vpF…@…com>

Sent: Thu, Dec 21, 2017 3:34 pm

Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Possible tax changes

—In vpF…@…com, <ed.miller@…> wrote :

From what I’ve read your source is wrong. As I read it in NYT, the change is that for professional filers, gambling expenses (i.e., travel, etc.) will be added to gambling losses and then deducted from wins. The main effect being that professional filers won’t be able to deduct expenses in excess of net win.

They’re increasing the standard deduction, though, so the change will probably indirectly have a negative effect on non-professional filers.

I’m not even remotely a tax expert though.

Ed

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 6:55 AM, w > hat7do7you7want@… [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

An acquaintance of mine, who happens to play VP at a high level of skill, told me something yesterday.

I did not confirm this, so it may be totally false. However, if what he said is true, all gamblers need to be aware of the changes that may be coming.

According to this acquaintance, gamblers will no longer be allowed to deduct losses on their taxes. i.e. the deduction for gambling losses will be eliminated. This might happen as early as 2018. This is all part of the new tax proposal that is underway.

According to this source, this will not affect the ability to offset losses for those who file as a professional gambler.and is restricted to a change
in how one itemizes Such losses would still be allowed as business expenses.

If anyone here knows more, please comment.

I know there are probably many people here who might be negatively impacted by these changes if they are enacted.

At a minimum, I suggest all gamblers who anticipate creating W2G events will want to pay attention to this situation and think about its impact before making any bets in 2018.

Or… My acquaintance is totally wrong. I sure hope that is the case.

QZ

Now that its law…

Does anyone else have any further info on this extremely important topic to vp players ?

[kcace1024]

William,

You were never able to completely offset taxable jackpots with losses unless your other itemized deductions exceeded your standard deduction. New standard deductions are 12,000 single and 24,000 married. If you have zero itemized deductions you will pay additional tax on either 12,000 or 24,000 in imaginary income beyond your real income at the top of your tax bracket. It may even kick you into a higher tax bracket.

Most people have some itemized deductions, but only a small number will now have more than the new standard deduction. You will be one of those people because you will have 40,000 in gambling losses to report. Make sure you include every possible itemized deduction or next year try to avoid W-2Gs by playing lower denominations.

Chris

[onetime7500]

Since gambling losses are not subject to the 2% AGI floor, they are still allowed under the new law.

The problem for many folks will be the much higher $24,000 standard deduction if married, $12,000 if single. If you need to deduct losses, you will miss out on this higher standard deduction. Given that state and local taxes are limited to $10,000, this is likely to be a hidden tax on gambling for many people.

[Harry_Porter]

For the sake of a concrete example, here are my circumstances (filing jointly):

2017 itemized deductions were $25000. Taxes paid to state and local authorities (referred to as SALT - state and local taxes) were $15000.

Under the 2018 SALT cap of $10000, I’ll lose the benefit of $5000 in tax deductions. My allowable itemized deductions are reduced to $20000. In absence of gaming activity, I would take the standard deduction of $24000, gaining $4000 in deductions.

Now, let’s add some modest gaming activity and presume that during the year $12k in w-g jackpots were hit, that these wins are reported as gross winnings, and that overall gaming activity netted a loss (so a offsetting gaming loss deduction of $12k is taken).

Here’s where things get a bit ugly. Yes. gaming losses can be declared to the extent of going wins, thus a wash in this case. However, to the extent that total itemized deductions are increased to the $24000 standard deduction through declared gaming losses, the benefit of otherwise taking the standard deduction is reduced $ for $.

In the above example, the added $4000 deduction benefit (via the standard deduction) is lost with the first $4000 in gambling losses. Assuming a 35% marginal tax rate, gambling activities impose an effective tax penalty of $1400.

—In vpF…@…com, <onetime7500@…> wrote :

Since gambling losses are not subject to the 2% AGI floor, they are still allowed under the new law.

The problem for many folks will be the much higher $24,000 standard deduction if married, $12,000 if single. If you need to deduct losses, you will miss out on this higher standard deduction. Given that state and local taxes are limited to $10,000, this is likely to be a hidden tax on gambling for many people.

[Hing_Tan]

Good information. Excellent example.

Do you know the mortgage interest is deductible under the new tax law?

Thanks

···

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, December 23, 2017, 7:38 PM, harry.por…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

For the sake of a concrete example, here are my circumstances (filing jointly):

2017 itemized deductions were $25000. Taxes paid to state and local authorities (referred to as SALT - state and local taxes) were $15000.

Under the 2018 SALT cap of $10000, I’ll lose the benefit of $5000 in tax deductions. My allowable itemized deductions are reduced to $20000. In absence of gaming activity, I would take the standard deduction of $24000, gaining $4000 in deductions.

Now, let’s add some modest gaming activity and presume that during the year $12k in w-g jackpots were hit, that these wins are reported as gross winnings, and that overall gaming activity netted a loss (so a offsetting gaming loss deduction of $12k is taken).

Here’s where things get a bit ugly. Yes. gaming losses can be declared to the extent of going wins, thus a wash in this case. However, to the extent that total itemized deductions are increased to the $24000 standard deduction through declared gaming losses, the benefit of otherwise taking the standard deduction is reduced $ for $.

In the above example, the added $4000 deduction benefit (via the standard deduction) is lost with the first $4000 in gambling losses. Assuming a 35% marginal tax rate, gambling activities impose an effective tax penalty of $1400.

—In vpF…@…com, <onetime7500@…> wrote :

Since gambling losses are not subject to the 2% AGI floor, they are still allowed under the new law.

The problem for many folks will be the much higher $24,000 standard deduction if married, $12,000 if single. If you need to deduct losses, you will miss out on this higher standard deduction. Given that state and local taxes are limited to $10,000, this is likely to be a hidden tax on gambling for many people.

[Howard_Stern1]

Also be aware that the elimination of the personal exemption hurts! If you are a senior, I think the second exemption is lost too.

Also no exemption for the kids? If so non itemizers with three kids for a married couple is barely better than a push under the new law.

Any more kids is a loser!

Good information. Excellent example.

Do you know the mortgage interest is deductible under the new tax law?

Thanks

···

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:58 AM, “Hing Tan mikeam7…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, December 23, 2017, 7:38 PM, harry.por…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

For the sake of a concrete example, here are my circumstances (filing jointly):

2017 itemized deductions were $25000. Taxes paid to state and local authorities (referred to as SALT - state and local taxes) were $15000.

Under the 2018 SALT cap of $10000, I’ll lose the benefit of $5000 in tax deductions. My allowable itemized deductions are reduced to $20000. In absence of gaming activity, I would take the standard deduction of $24000, gaining $4000 in deductions.

Now, let’s add some modest gaming activity and presume that during the year $12k in w-g jackpots were hit, that these wins are reported as gross winnings, and that overall gaming activity netted a loss (so a offsetting gaming loss deduction of $12k is taken).

Here’s where things get a bit ugly. Yes. gaming losses can be declared to the extent of going wins, thus a wash in this case. However, to the extent that total itemized deductions are increased to the $24000 standard deduction through declared gaming losses, the benefit of otherwise taking the standard deduction is reduced $ for $.

In the above example, the added $4000 deduction benefit (via the standard deduction) is lost with the first $4000 in gambling losses. Assuming a 35% marginal tax rate, gambling activities impose an effective tax penalty of $1400.

—In vpF…@…com, <onetime7500@…> wrote :

Since gambling losses are not subject to the 2% AGI floor, they are still allowed under the new law.

The problem for many folks will be the much higher $24,000 standard deduction if married, $12,000 if single. If you need to deduct losses, you will miss out on this higher standard deduction. Given that state and local taxes are limited to $10,000, this is likely to be a hidden tax on gambling for many people.

[C11]

Child tax credit doubled from $1000 to $2000 per child. Credits are substantially better than deductions.

···

On Dec 24, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Howard Stern pyi…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Also be aware that the elimination of the personal exemption hurts! If you are a senior, I think the second exemption is lost too.

Also no exemption for the kids? If so non itemizers with three kids for a married couple is barely better than a push under the new law.

Any more kids is a loser!

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:58 AM, “Hing Tan mikeam7…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Good information. Excellent example.

Do you know the mortgage interest is deductible under the new tax law?

Thanks

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, December 23, 2017, 7:38 PM, harry.por…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

For the sake of a concrete example, here are my circumstances (filing jointly):

2017 itemized deductions were $25000. Taxes paid to state and local authorities (referred to as SALT - state and local taxes) were $15000.

Under the 2018 SALT cap of $10000, I’ll lose the benefit of $5000 in tax deductions. My allowable itemized deductions are reduced to $20000. In absence of gaming activity, I would take the standard deduction of $24000, gaining $4000 in deductions.

Now, let’s add some modest gaming activity and presume that during the year $12k in w-g jackpots were hit, that these wins are reported as gross winnings, and that overall gaming activity netted a loss (so a offsetting gaming loss deduction of $12k is taken).

Here’s where things get a bit ugly. Yes. gaming losses can be declared to the extent of going wins, thus a wash in this case. However, to the extent that total itemized deductions are increased to the $24000 standard deduction through declared gaming losses, the benefit of otherwise taking the standard deduction is reduced $ for $.

In the above example, the added $4000 deduction benefit (via the standard deduction) is lost with the first $4000 in gambling losses. Assuming a 35% marginal tax rate, gambling activities impose an effective tax penalty of $1400.

—In vpF…@…com, <onetime7500@…> wrote :

Since gambling losses are not subject to the 2% AGI floor, they are still allowed under the new law.

The problem for many folks will be the much higher $24,000 standard deduction if married, $12,000 if single. If you need to deduct losses, you will miss out on this higher standard deduction. Given that state and local taxes are limited to $10,000, this is likely to be a hidden tax on gambling for many people.

[Howard_Stern1]

That is true. good catch.

Child tax credit doubled from $1000 to $2000 per child. Credits are substantially better than deductions.

···

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:54 PM, “C clement…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com> wrote:

On Dec 24, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Howard Stern pyi…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Also be aware that the elimination of the personal exemption hurts! If you are a senior, I think the second exemption is lost too.

Also no exemption for the kids? If so non itemizers with three kids for a married couple is barely better than a push under the new law.

Any more kids is a loser!

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:58 AM, “Hing Tan mikeam7…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Good information. Excellent example.

Do you know the mortgage interest is deductible under the new tax law?

Thanks

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, December 23, 2017, 7:38 PM, harry.por…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

For the sake of a concrete example, here are my circumstances (filing jointly):

2017 itemized deductions were $25000. Taxes paid to state and local authorities (referred to as SALT - state and local taxes) were $15000.

Under the 2018 SALT cap of $10000, I’ll lose the benefit of $5000 in tax deductions. My allowable itemized deductions are reduced to $20000. In absence of gaming activity, I would take the standard deduction of $24000, gaining $4000 in deductions.

Now, let’s add some modest gaming activity and presume that during the year $12k in w-g jackpots were hit, that these wins are reported as gross winnings, and that overall gaming activity netted a loss (so a offsetting gaming loss deduction of $12k is taken).

Here’s where things get a bit ugly. Yes. gaming losses can be declared to the extent of going wins, thus a wash in this case. However, to the extent that total itemized deductions are increased to the $24000 standard deduction through declared gaming losses, the benefit of otherwise taking the standard deduction is reduced $ for $.

In the above example, the added $4000 deduction benefit (via the standard deduction) is lost with the first $4000 in gambling losses. Assuming a 35% marginal tax rate, gambling activities impose an effective tax penalty of $1400.

—In vpF…@…com, <onetime7500@…> wrote :

Since gambling losses are not subject to the 2% AGI floor, they are still allowed under the new law.

The problem for many folks will be the much higher $24,000 standard deduction if married, $12,000 if single. If you need to deduct losses, you will miss out on this higher standard deduction. Given that state and local taxes are limited to $10,000, this is likely to be a hidden tax on gambling for many people.

[Fannie]

any one know whats going on at aq laughlin? appears they have gotten rid of the $1 db.

thanks

jas

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[Ken3]

I believe they kept the senior deductions.

···

---

From: vpF…@…com <vpF…@…com> on behalf of Howard Stern pyi…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com>
Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2017 5:53:27 PM
To: vpF…@…com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Possible tax changes

That is true. good catch.

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 3:54 PM, “C clement…@…com [vpFREE]” <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Child tax credit doubled from $1000 to $2000 per child. Credits are substantially better than deductions.

On Dec 24, 2017, at 6:31 AM, Howard Stern
pyi…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Also be aware that the elimination of the personal exemption hurts! If you are a senior, I think the second exemption is lost too.

Also no exemption for the kids? If so non itemizers with three kids for a married couple is barely better than a push under the new law.

Any more kids is a loser!

On Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:58 AM, "Hing Tan

mikeam7…@…com [vpFREE]" <vpF…@…com> wrote:

Good information. Excellent example.

Do you know the mortgage interest is deductible under the new tax law?

Thanks

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, December 23, 2017, 7:38 PM,
harry.por…@…net [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com> wrote:

For the sake of a concrete example, here are my circumstances (filing jointly):

2017 itemized deductions were $25000. Taxes paid to state and local authorities (referred to as SALT - state and local taxes) were $15000.

Under the 2018 SALT cap of $10000, I’ll lose the benefit of $5000 in tax deductions. My allowable itemized deductions are reduced to $20000. In absence of gaming activity, I would take the standard deduction of $24000,
gaining $4000 in deductions.

Now, let’s add some modest gaming activity and presume that during the year $12k in w-g jackpots were hit, that these wins are reported as gross winnings, and that overall gaming activity netted a loss (so a offsetting
gaming loss deduction of $12k is taken).

Here’s where things get a bit ugly. Yes. gaming losses can be declared to the extent of going wins, thus a wash in this case. However, to the extent that total itemized deductions are increased to the $24000 standard
deduction through declared gaming losses, the benefit of otherwise taking the standard deduction is reduced $ for $.

In the above example, the added $4000 deduction benefit (via the standard deduction) is lost with the first $4000 in gambling losses. Assuming a 35% marginal tax rate, gambling activities impose an effective tax penalty
of $1400.

—In
vpF…@…com, <onetime7500@…> wrote :

Since gambling losses are not subject to the 2% AGI floor, they are still allowed under the new law.

The problem for many folks will be the much higher $24,000 standard deduction if married, $12,000 if single. If you need to deduct losses, you will miss out on this higher standard deduction. Given that state and local taxes are limited to $10,000, this is
likely to be a hidden tax on gambling for many people.

[Don_the_Dentist]

I was at the Aquarius in Laughlin last week. They downgraded the $1 10/7 DB, with a progressive for the RF and 4 aces. The new pay-table is now 9/7.

However, the $1 10/6 DDB with a progressive for the RF and 4 aces w/kicker is still there.

The $.25 10/7 DB is still there as well.

With new ownership comes changes.

Don the Dentist