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Poker Machines

I mostly play full play dueces wild. My question is especially for
full pay dueces. Is it best to switch machines when it is not
hitting or doing much or is best to stay with the machine until it
comes around?

Obviously, it doesn't matter, however sometimes it does help. Yesterday at
the Santa Fe, I was playing quarter FPDW. Went through the first $20 with
barely a hit. Switched machines, got some small hits but lost the second
twenty, switched once again and after a few minutes was rewarded with a
Royal.
Sometimes scrapping logic, though not logical, works.

>
> I mostly play full play dueces wild. My question is especially

for

> full pay dueces. Is it best to switch machines when it is not
> hitting or doing much or is best to stay with the machine until

it

> comes around?

Obviously, it doesn't matter, however sometimes it does help.

Yesterday at

the Santa Fe, I was playing quarter FPDW. Went through the first

$20 with

barely a hit. Switched machines, got some small hits but lost the

second

twenty, switched once again and after a few minutes was rewarded

with a

Royal.
Sometimes scrapping logic, though not logical, works.

Hi Jerry,

I also know, intellectually, that it doesn't matter. Eventually, in
the "long term," you'll have the same results, staying put at one
machine or moving to another with the same pay schedule.

However, in the "short term", the realm in which many of us play,
changing machines can add to both our enjoyment and the
pyschological (if superstitious) feeling of doing something to stop
the bankroll bleeding.

almost every instance where I've scored a big hand
(RF/4Ducks/5kind/Aceswkicker) it has been w/i just a few minutes af
sitting down at that machine. It seems that when I feed in Bennie
after Bennie, the machine just keeps eating the bills for lunch, and
I end up with nothing but frustration.

So IMO, if it makes you feels better and helps you to derive more
fun from your vp experience, go for it, and switch machines whenever
you get the urge to do so. Much like chicken soup, it may not help,
but I can't see how it can hurt either.

Babe

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Greenberg <jerrygr@c...> wrote:
From my own personal (and statistically meaningless) experience, in

jackessiebabe

So IMO, if it makes you feels better and helps you to derive more
fun from your vp experience, go for it, and switch machines whenever
you get the urge to do so. Much like chicken soup, it may not help,
but I can't see how it can hurt either.

Babe, I'm with you to a modest extent. But there's a potential for
distraction in this.

If you switch from a machine after you've dropped $200 or $300,
deciding that it's "cold", it's likely going to occur to you that had
you swiched machines at the first inkling the machine was "cold" you
might have saved yourself a $100 or so.

The only natural thing to do is to switch machines when they stop
"paying" earlier, before they have a chance to do heavy damage to your
bankroll. That makes for play in which you're now very vigiliant for
negative streaks and frequent machine switching.

It opens the mind up for recrimination when the choices made still
lead to a very bad session, and in general, lends itself to a lot of
distraction and negative play focus.

I may exaggerate here, but once a player accepts that there's no
relationship between what happens one hand to the next, play becomes
much, much simpler and comfortable (mind you, I'm speak only out of my
own experience).

That's not to say I don't change machines from time to time. I'll do
it to get away from a smoker, or someone who's otherwise obnoxious.
I'll do it if I'm too cold or warm. And, on occasion, when the play's
going very poorly, I'll move simply to put myself in a fresh
environmnet - to help me shake the displeasure a rough session brings.

- Harry (who, perhaps, is the only neurotic player on the floor ...)

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe" <jackessiebabe@y...>
wrote:

> >
> > I mostly play full play dueces wild. My question is especially
for
> > full pay dueces. Is it best to switch machines when it is not
> > hitting or doing much or is best to stay with the machine until
it
> > comes around?
>
> Obviously, it doesn't matter, however sometimes it does help.
Yesterday at
> the Santa Fe, I was playing quarter FPDW. Went through the first
$20 with
> barely a hit. Switched machines, got some small hits but lost the
second
> twenty, switched once again and after a few minutes was rewarded
with a
> Royal.
> Sometimes scrapping logic, though not logical, works.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hi Jerry,

I also know, intellectually, that it doesn't matter. Eventually,

in

the "long term," you'll have the same results, staying put at one
machine or moving to another with the same pay schedule.

However, in the "short term", the realm in which many of us play,
changing machines can add to both our enjoyment and the
pyschological (if superstitious) feeling of doing something to stop
the bankroll bleeding.

From my own personal (and statistically meaningless) experience, in
almost every instance where I've scored a big hand
(RF/4Ducks/5kind/Aceswkicker) it has been w/i just a few minutes af
sitting down at that machine. It seems that when I feed in Bennie
after Bennie, the machine just keeps eating the bills for lunch,

and

I end up with nothing but frustration.

So IMO, if it makes you feels better and helps you to derive more
fun from your vp experience, go for it, and switch machines

whenever

you get the urge to do so. Much like chicken soup, it may not

help,

but I can't see how it can hurt either.

Babe

Since your chances of winning are exactly the same on any VP machine
with the same pay table, I'd say go with whatever makes you feel the
most comfortable. I'm sure many in this forum can relate stories of
having switched machines and winning immediately, and others can
relate stories of sticking with one machine, getting into a deep
hole, and then hitting a hot streak and coming out way ahead. My
personal favorite from my experience goes back several years, back to
a glorious time when full pay DB was the norm at the Gold Coast. I
had gone in with $500, and sat down to play a $1 DB machine. I was
in for the full $500, and got down to my last five credits. If I
lose this hand, I leave. I was dealt a pair of eights, and drew the
other two eights for quads, keeping me alive. About five minutes
later, I was dealt 9-10-Q-K-A in hearts, dumped the nine and got the
jack for the royal. What was almost a $500 loss turned into a $3600
win. While this doesn't prove that sticking with the same machine is
always going to work, it does show that it will work sometimes.
Actually, the real moral of the story here is that one should only
play full pay machines. Had that machine been anything less than
full pay, I would have lost my $500 stake before those quad eights
came up.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jerry Greenberg <jerrygr@c...> wrote:

Hi Harry,

Happy New year to you!

First of all, you are not even the most neurotic player on the
floor, no less the only one! Many of my vp playing friends, and I do
NOT exclude myself from that elite group, are quite neurotic.
However, since I believe that ALL intelligent people are at least
slightly neurotic, I wear my neuroticism as a badge of honor.

Fortunately, for both my sanity, and I truly believe, my bankroll,
with very exceptions, one Bennie is all that I am willing to feed a
machine, in one sitting. I may go back to the recalcitrent offender
later, even though past experiences warn me that it will still
remain stubbornly un-cooperative. On the 2nd go round, I rarely
donate more than $40.00 more.

The exception to above is when I find a juicy prog. They are my
nemesis. Once I start on a ripe prog., I find it difficult to quit
until it either hits or I am about to miss my plane. I've only hit
one prog. this way, though I've played many. The progs I have hit
gave up the Royal to me w/i 15 minutes of my sitting down. However,
I usually ignore the litle voice which reminds me of these past mis-
adventures, and continue to throw hundred, after hundred, into the
cold and ravenous bill acceptor.

Intellectually, I know that what you're saying about randomness, in-
so-far as the last hand having no impact on the next hand, is
absolutely, unequivocably and mathmatically 100% correct. However,
as you also note, and as anyone who plays a lot of VP will attest
to, the machines are streaky. I'm just trying to find the one
that's streaking in tne right direction.

Conversely, the only time I'll leave a machine that is at least
giving me max playing time, is if someone is blowing smoke at me,
trying to carry on an inappropriate conversation, the uncomfortable
seat is giving me a backache, I'm hungry, or I have to use the
facilities.

Of course, what works right for me, may not be right for someone
else. I think we should all seek our own comfort level, w/o
worrying too much (outside of corect pay schedules & stategy) about
the "proper" way to go about engaging in our favorite pastime.

Babe

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

jackessiebabe
> So IMO, if it makes you feels better and helps you to derive

more

> fun from your vp experience, go for it, and switch machines

whenever

> you get the urge to do so. Much like chicken soup, it may not

help,

> but I can't see how it can hurt either.

Babe, I'm with you to a modest extent. But there's a potential for
distraction in this.

If you switch from a machine after you've dropped $200 or $300,
deciding that it's "cold", it's likely going to occur to you that

had

you swiched machines at the first inkling the machine was "cold"

you

might have saved yourself a $100 or so.

The only natural thing to do is to switch machines when they stop
"paying" earlier, before they have a chance to do heavy damage to

your

bankroll. That makes for play in which you're now very vigiliant

for

negative streaks and frequent machine switching.

It opens the mind up for recrimination when the choices made still
lead to a very bad session, and in general, lends itself to a lot

of

distraction and negative play focus.

I may exaggerate here, but once a player accepts that there's no
relationship between what happens one hand to the next, play

becomes

much, much simpler and comfortable (mind you, I'm speak only out

of my

own experience).

That's not to say I don't change machines from time to time. I'll

do

it to get away from a smoker, or someone who's otherwise

obnoxious.

I'll do it if I'm too cold or warm. And, on occasion, when the

play's

going very poorly, I'll move simply to put myself in a fresh
environmnet - to help me shake the displeasure a rough session

brings.

- Harry (who, perhaps, is the only neurotic player on the

floor ...)

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "wishiwuzinvegas" <pelotari1672@y...>
wrote:

> Since your chances of winning are exactly the same on any VP

machine

with the same pay table, I'd say go with whatever makes you feel

the

most comfortable. I'm sure many in this forum can relate stories

of

having switched machines and winning immediately, and others can
relate stories of sticking with one machine, getting into a deep
hole, and then hitting a hot streak and coming out way ahead. My
personal favorite from my experience goes back several years, back

to

a glorious time when full pay DB was the norm at the Gold Coast.

I

had gone in with $500, and sat down to play a $1 DB machine. I

was

in for the full $500, and got down to my last five credits. If I
lose this hand, I leave. I was dealt a pair of eights, and drew

the

other two eights for quads, keeping me alive. About five minutes
later, I was dealt 9-10-Q-K-A in hearts, dumped the nine and got

the

jack for the royal. What was almost a $500 loss turned into a

$3600

win. While this doesn't prove that sticking with the same machine

is

···

always going to work, it does show that it will work sometimes.
Actually, the real moral of the story here is that one should only
play full pay machines. Had that machine been anything less than
full pay, I would have lost my $500 stake before those quad eights
came up.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

My favorite story involved some

other player switching machines. It happened about 2 years ago, at
the Cal Neva, in Reno. I was actually staying at my then favorite
Northern Nevada casino, The Peppermill. I had been there 3 days and
was doing terribly. I had another 1 + days before going home, and
was looking at an almost depleted bankroll, having already visited
the safe deposit box 3 times, for withdrawals. I decided to take the
Shuttle that the Pepp used to run into downtown, and wandered over
to the Cal Neva. At first glance, I thought it was horrible looking,
grungy, stinky and decrepit. Remember, I like the EL CORTEZ, so you
can just imagine!! I plunked down at the only available seat at a
nice .25 JoBprog., with a meter reading pushing $3,000. I played
for awhile, went up and down, and finally lost my original $20.00.
Some elderly lady had been watching me, and swooped down on my
vacated seat, while it was still warm. I decided that I was hungry,
and went to the Sport's Book for one of their $1.00 Hot Dogs. I
took my time eating, but finally wandered back to the same prog.
The lady who had jumped into my seat, saw me coming, almost fell in
her rush to grab the now vacated seat next to that one, obviously
to prevent me from sitting there. She then announced, "You're sure
welcome to this Dog; it's eaten all my money". Not one to run from
an obvious challenge, I sat down, and inserted the last $20.00 that
I was willing to invest. On the FIRST hand, I came in with the A/Q
of hearts, and then, of course, drew the other 3 pieces. Total
jackpot: $3001.54. The other woman was almost apopletic. I tried to
nake her feel better by explaining why she wouldn't have drawn the
same cards, but it was no use. I'm sure that if she could have, she
would have cast a wicked spell on me. Fortunately, my magic was
better. After returning to the Pepp, by Taxi (to which a security
guard escorted me) and depositing the winnings in my SD box, I
continued winning, and went home nicely ahead for the trip.

I'd enjoy reading about other's experiences when they changed
machines.

Babe

Have you considered the possibility that it is not the particular machine
that is streaky but the individual player? Maybe what we really need to do
is change ourselves -maybe make a run upstairs to get the lucky hat or take
a shower to wash all the bad luck off;-)

Chandler

···

_____

From: jackessiebabe [mailto:jackessieb…@…com]
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 1:09 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Changing machines (formerly Poker Machines)

The exception to above is when I find a juicy prog. They are my
nemesis. Once I start on a ripe prog., I find it difficult to quit
until it either hits or I am about to miss my plane. I've only hit
one prog. this way, though I've played many. The progs I have hit
gave up the Royal to me w/i 15 minutes of my sitting down. However,
I usually ignore the litle voice which reminds me of these past mis-
adventures, and continue to throw hundred, after hundred, into the
cold and ravenous bill acceptor.

Intellectually, I know that what you're saying about randomness, in-
so-far as the last hand having no impact on the next hand, is
absolutely, unequivocably and mathmatically 100% correct. However,
as you also note, and as anyone who plays a lot of VP will attest
to, the machines are streaky. I'm just trying to find the one
that's streaking in tne right direction.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]