Playing 10/6/40 DDB with 9/6 JOB strategy

[WP_SF]

My analysis is much simpler. Without looking at the strategy sheet for
either game, I'm guessing the DDB one is shorter (less decision
lines). There is some 10-6-40 DDB in MS, and because of the 3%
non-refundable tax withheld on W2-Gs, some of those lines disappear as
well. Consider (at dollars or halves) with QJTs, KQJs and JJ-KK:

10-6 DDB (NV) Hold QJTs, KQJs if clean (no penalty card)over a pay
pair (not Aces)
10-6-40 DDB (NV) hold KQJs only in same situation
10-6-40 DDB (MS) always play the pay pair

Going back to penalty card situations, there's a couple of simple
rules for playing AQJ hands. Even I can teach those.

I'm surprised more gaming writers don't write more about DDB, it's the
game of choice among the recreational player. I think even Bob teaches
the occasional class in DDB.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:

Paladin wrote: Why just not take the time to learn it correctly? DDB is
easier to play than Jacks.

Doubtful --- for a variety of reasons

  1. Basic game --- there are far fewer exceptions in JoB.
For example, ALL high pairs in JoB better than RF3s --- not true in DDB.

  2. Penalty cards --- Even players who don't normally make
the effort to learn penalty cards (like Jean Scott, according to her own
words), learn them in JoB because they are very easy and the game is at
so many places that it pays to learn them. 10-6-40 DDB is a "relatively"
uncommon game, so you're not going to find it in many places, plus the
penalty card situations in DDB are more numerous and arguably more
difficult.
  3. Gaming writers --- 9/6 JoB is the game that ALL video
poker writers discuss. This means the video poker community has been
exposed to knowledge about this game. DDB 10-6-40 has been rarely
discussed.

Although I disagree with Paladin's premise (that DDB is easier to learn
than JoB), I agree with his statement that it makes sense to learn the
game if you're going to play it.

[5-card]

Thanks Bob,

  I missed the SF being 40.

···

____________________________________________________________

Without getting into the details of FVP, Harry was talking about 10-6-40
and you seem to be talking about 10-6-50. That could account for this
difference.

Bob Dancer

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=4641017/grpspId=1705065732/msgId
=82839/stime=1199481028/nc1=4767085/nc2=4507179/nc3=3848640>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[jaywilly2401]

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

>
> Paladin wrote: Why just not take the time to learn it correctly?

DDB is

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@> wrote:
> easier to play than Jacks.

---------------------------------------

> Although I disagree with Paladin's premise (that DDB is easier to

learn

> than JoB), I agree with his statement that it makes sense to learn

the

> game if you're going to play it.

--------------------------------------------

Especially since, if you know JOB strategy, you don't really have to

learn DDB --- you need only to learn the differences between the two
games

[nightoftheiguana2000]

3 aces breaks a full house, 2 aces breaks two pair, any open ended
straight draw with at least one face card beats a low pair, any inside
straight draw with two face cards beats an ace and an ace beats any
two unsuited face cards or one face card with or without a suited ten,
any inside straight draw is better than drawing five cards?

I don't normally think of strategies this way, so the above may or may
not be correct. In other words, your mileage may vary.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jaywilly240" <wha724@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@> wrote:
> >
> > Paladin wrote: Why just not take the time to learn it correctly?
DDB is
> > easier to play than Jacks.
---------------------------------------
>> > Although I disagree with Paladin's premise (that DDB is easier to
learn
> > than JoB), I agree with his statement that it makes sense to learn
the
> > game if you're going to play it.
--------------------------------------------
>> Especially since, if you know JOB strategy, you don't really have to
learn DDB --- you need only to learn the differences between the two
games

[nightoftheiguana2000]

FVP says 99.96% return on this strategy on 10/6/40 DDB.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

3 aces breaks a full house, 2 aces breaks two pair, any open ended
straight draw with at least one face card beats a low pair, any inside
straight draw with two face cards beats an ace and an ace beats any
two unsuited face cards or one face card with or without a suited ten,
any inside straight draw is better than drawing five cards?

I don't normally think of strategies this way, so the above may or may
not be correct. In other words, your mileage may vary.

>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
> <paladingamingllc@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Paladin wrote: Why just not take the time to learn it correctly?
> DDB is
> > > easier to play than Jacks.
> ---------------------------------------
> >> > Although I disagree with Paladin's premise (that DDB is

easier to

> learn
> > > than JoB), I agree with his statement that it makes sense to

learn

> the
> > > game if you're going to play it.
> --------------------------------------------
> >> Especially since, if you know JOB strategy, you don't really

have to

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "jaywilly240" <wha724@> wrote:
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@> wrote:
> learn DDB --- you need only to learn the differences between the two
> games
>

[Bob_Dancer]

Night wrote (with a disclaimer): 3 aces breaks a full house, 2 aces
breaks two pair, any open ended straight draw with at least one face
card beats a low pair, any inside straight draw with two face cards
beats an ace and an ace beats any two unsuited face cards or one face
card with or without a suited ten, any inside straight draw is better
than drawing five cards?

There are lots more strategy changes from JoB to 10/6/40 DDB at the
penalty-free level: namely

  'KQJ' > JJ, QQ, KK --- there are exceptions as Paladin noted
  FL4 2h > 'AKT', 'AQT', 'AJT' --- no exceptions here
  AKQJ > 'KQ9', 'KJ9' --- this is opposite to JoB
  'QJ' > SF3 0h0i
  QJ > A --- The exceptions to this are the most difficult hands
in this game
   
  If we get into penalty card situations, instead of hold K only
from 'KTx' with a 9 penalty (as we do in JoB), with the same hand we
hold 'KTx' in 10-6-40 DDB. (The x refers to a small card in the same
suit as the 'KT' but too low to be part of a royal flush or straight
flush draw.) 'AK', 'AQ', 'AJ', 'KQ', and 'KJ' with a flush penalty are
less valuable than ST4 1i. This NEVER happens in 9/6 JoB.
  SF3 0h1i with a straight penalty < A. This never happens in 9/6
JoB. Sometimes KQ, KJ > A. While this always happens in 9/6 JoB, it's
rare in 10-6-40. It requires both a regular flush penalty to the ace
along with a straight flush kicker penalty (i.e. a 2,3, or 4, but not a
5). In 9/6 JoB, you ALWAYS prefer 'JT' to AJ. In 10-6-40, you usually
prefer the A by itself, but sometimes you prefer 'JT'.

  All in all, IMO, 10-6-40 DDB is a MUCH more difficult game than
9-6 JoB.

Bob Dancer

For a 3-day free trial of Video Poker for Winners, the best video poker
computer trainer ever invented, go to //www.videopokerforwinners.com

[WP_SF]

If you want to play computer perfect, you're right. However, when it's
right to play KJ over an A, it's very small, like .002 of a coin,
where if you get it wrong, chances are it's at least .02 of a coin.
Moreover, it's a small price to hit a longshot for $800 or $2K. Kind
of the same deal when playing JTs over an A-you need the right two
penalty cards (SF pen, not a 5, with a 6 or 7 or a suited 8 to the A,
if I remember correctly). Also, there's a fairly straightforward rule
for handling the A v QJ hands (if an 8, play the A unless a S or F
pen, if a 9, play the A unless a F pen); if I'm wrong, I'm sure Bob
will be right on it to correct me.

I can see where a student might get something like KJ (A48)s confused
with KJ (A59)s. My point was the basic game is fairly straightforward.
n truth, all the games in the Double Bonus family (DB, DDB, TB+, BDlx,
TDB, etc...) share many of the same characteristics with each other.

My inattention to minutiae probably gets me a return of maybe 99.9572
instead of 99.9577, but I take comfort in the fact the .0005
difference in ER is statistically insignificant. While I certainly
can't criticize someone who insists on perfection, I tend to focus
more on practicality. I think most people can get to within .05 of
perfection on DDB faster than the Jacks, but that's just my opinion.

I recently found a DBDW 12 multi line game with very good cashback.
DBDW is also difficult to play, there are some penalty card situations
with WRF3, A-hi, that can be expensive to misplay. I used to know all
of these when I was playing the game several years ago, but have
forgotten them. Do I plunge right in and play, knowing I'm giving up
.05%, or do I go home and study and come back another time? Both! Even
though my play is likely going to be imperfect, I'm still very
profitable on this particular play. If I know this is going to be a
continuing play for me, I can always brush up on it for the next time.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@...> wrote:

  All in all, IMO, 10-6-40 DDB is a MUCH more difficult game than
9-6 JoB.

[Mac_McClellan]

Paladin, you're right. DDB basic strategy does seem easy to learn.
I can't say if it's easier or harder than JOB because I learned JOB
so long ago and there's no frame of reference, but after 2k hands on
FVP basic strategy seems fairly easy.

Regarding computer-perfect play, I don't play any VP game perfectly.
I believe I can play faster and more accurately if I just stick to a
basic strategy. I'm willing to give up a few tenths of a percent.

This has turned into a good thread, and all because I was too lazy to
open up a spreadsheet and do some math.

So let this be a lesson to all -- laziness has it's rewards!

I've learned something new about the FVP program, we've had a good
discussion of the main topic, and even a couple of OT tangents gave
me (and others I'm sure) some good chuckles.

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladingamingllc"
<paladingamingllc@...> wrote:

> All in all, IMO, 10-6-40 DDB is a MUCH more difficult game

than

> 9-6 JoB.

If you want to play computer perfect, you're right. However, when

it's

right to play KJ over an A, it's very small, like .002 of a coin,
where if you get it wrong, chances are it's at least .02 of a coin.
Moreover, it's a small price to hit a longshot for $800 or $2K. Kind
of the same deal when playing JTs over an A-you need the right two
penalty cards (SF pen, not a 5, with a 6 or 7 or a suited 8 to the

A,

if I remember correctly). Also, there's a fairly straightforward

rule

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bdancer@> wrote:
for handling the A v QJ hands (if an 8, play the A unless a S or F
pen, if a 9, play the A unless a F pen); if I'm wrong, I'm sure Bob
will be right on it to correct me.