Planned Vegas Trip

[tedchee]

I'd normally agree with your choices but here was the original request:

"I'm hunting for a single casino where I can play VP with the only object
to get comped for my room and food. My bankroll is limited, perhaps $3,000.
Certainly I don't require an expensive room or 5-star dining!"

I've never played at Ellis Island but I did dine there as a guest of some
local high-rollers & didn't get food poisoning. Locals recommend it due to
the long-time dining privileges which I'll leave for someone else to
describe. El Cortez, I also haven't stayed there either but did book a room which
was like straight out of the '50s & made a mental note to myself that I
would use it in the future if I needed to be Downtown. If was across the
street from the casino & access was guarded & required a room key. I avoided El
Cortez for years due to an image from a decade ago but I haven't
experienced any of it in the last 3 visits last year. Re Terribles, I'll defer to
your opinion since I haven't been there in a couple of years but this used to
be one of the best places to gamble & I'd invite Jean Scott to weigh in
with her insight since she used to gamble there frequently. Sam's Town - it's
been over a decade since I've been there so I can't comment about its
current state but that's a curious one to bring up since it's so far from the
Strip. Rampart is also an odd one due to its distance.

However, Rampart is a past favorite of mine. If anyone has the time, please
give us an update.

Since I've cut down my LV trips in frequency & duration, I don't have as
much time as before to visit some of the outlying casinos. It used to be the
best plays were in the off-Strip casinos & it's probably still that way.
However, to maximize you have to be a local because the incentives are
normally oriented toward getting you to show up on a frequent basis. Walk down
memory lane, Santa Fe & AZ Charlies was where I played the first multi-line
games (by Silicon Gaming) & it was FP Jokers Wild with 4700 RF. And who
remembers the Odeyssey VP with the bonus feature on those machines?

In a message dated 2/3/2012 8:52:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:

_Re: [vpFREE] Planned Vegas Trip _
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/119187;_ylc=X3oDMTJzZTcxdWtyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzQ2NDEwMTcEZ3Jwc3B
JZAMxNzA1MDY1NzMyBG1zZ0lkAzExOTE4NwRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzI4Mjg
3OTMw)
Posted by: "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" _rob.singer1111@yahoo.com _
(mailto:rob.singer1…@…com?Subject= Re:%20[vpFREE]%20Planned%20Vegas%20Trip)
_rob.singer1111 _ (http://profiles.yahoo.com/rob.singer1111)
Thu Feb 2, 2012 8:55 pm (PST)

If I were just starting out I'd stick with Tuscany out of that group and I
wouldn't go near El Cortez, Terribles, Sam's Town, or esp. Ellis Island.
The gross-out factor weighs far greater with me than whatever a property
offers for vp.

Don't get the wrong impression on your initial trip: visit the M, South
Point, Rampart, or even the Orleans or any of the beautiful hotels on and
around the Strip.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Roger_Smith]

Of course there's more to it than "I don't require an expensive room or 5-star dining!". One post recommended being open to the sublime and wonderful casino. I shouldn't be looking for the drab and defunct, when making a choice of my "first destination," my home casino. And the casino being hungry isn't sufficient, either. A good operator knows an inspired comps program is a prerequisite to attracting crowds of happy gamblers! When the bean-counters take over casino operation, a decent comps program will be the first to go.

Examine what happened to Binion's Horseshoe (and Union Plaza and Las Vegas Club). Benny Binion laid down a completely original and powerful foundation, and the result was Binion's became the world's best at poker (witness the World Series of Poker) and also the very best in the world at craps. Not only that they were right near the top at blackjack. I watched this personally, starting in 1987. I haven't been interested in VP until now, but I'll bet Benny was real, real generous in that area too! He sure installed great low prices on food, and I could go on and on about that. When Benny died the slide began. It ended up being sold for taxes. Instructive. Same with Union Plaza and Las Vegas. When Jackie Gaughan owned them his name was plastered right on the building, in great big letters! And Jackie tried to outdo Benny. No doubt Las Vegas Club had the most generous blackjack anywhere. But when Jackie sold out, it was just a
matter of time and these places would become just a shadow of their former self; El Cortez, which is where Jackie lives to this day (and at advanced age), apparently has also suffered with new ownership.

I've selected Main Street Station as my home casino, subject to change of course. Their buffet is super, and also affordable (morning to night, too). Their location kitty-corner to the city bus terminal means the #108 bus is for all practical purposes the Main St shuttle from the airport! A Boyd property, I'm wondering if what I'm learning about comps in Jean Scotts' "More Frugal Gambling" will apply. I sure hope so. The vpFREE2 database shows Main St. #7 among 485 casinos statewide, another plus for me. Further, vpFREE2 leads me to JB (Jacks or Better) and DB (Double Bonus), as games I must learn. After all I'll be a beginner at VP, and I love the challenge! Paymer's VP software will be mine, a super duper product. JB and DB are low volatility games, so I'll also select a high volatility game to learn, possibly DDB.

This is a time of great changes for me, as I expect to show up monthly in LV, primarily to play VP. I appreciate much the very substantial help I've been getting from the vpFREE members! Thank You!

···

________________________________
From: "TedChee@aol.com" <TedChee@aol.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2012 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Planned Vegas Trip

I'd normally agree with your choices but here was the original request:

"I'm hunting for a single casino where I can play VP with the only object
to get comped for my room and food. My bankroll is limited, perhaps $3,000.
Certainly I don't require an expensive room or 5-star dining!"

I've never played at Ellis Island but I did dine there as a guest of some
local high-rollers & didn't get food poisoning. Locals recommend it due to
the long-time dining privileges which I'll leave for someone else to
describe. El Cortez, I also haven't stayed there either but did book a room which
was like straight out of the '50s & made a mental note to myself that I
would use it in the future if I needed to be Downtown. If was across the
street from the casino & access was guarded & required a room key. I avoided El
Cortez for years due to an image from a decade ago but I haven't
experienced any of it in the last 3 visits last year. Re Terribles, I'll defer to
your opinion since I haven't been there in a couple of years but this used to
be one of the best places to gamble & I'd invite Jean Scott to weigh in
with her insight since she used to gamble there frequently. Sam's Town - it's
been over a decade since I've been there so I can't comment about its
current state but that's a curious one to bring up since it's so far from the
Strip. Rampart is also an odd one due to its distance.

However, Rampart is a past favorite of mine. If anyone has the time, please
give us an update.

Since I've cut down my LV trips in frequency & duration, I don't have as
much time as before to visit some of the outlying casinos. It used to be the
best plays were in the off-Strip casinos & it's probably still that way.
However, to maximize you have to be a local because the incentives are
normally oriented toward getting you to show up on a frequent basis. Walk down
memory lane, Santa Fe & AZ Charlies was where I played the first multi-line
games (by Silicon Gaming) & it was FP Jokers Wild with 4700 RF. And who
remembers the Odeyssey VP with the bonus feature on those machines?

In a message dated 2/3/2012 8:52:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:

_Re: [vpFREE] Planned Vegas Trip _
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/119187;_ylc=X3oDMTJzZTcxdWtyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzQ2NDEwMTcEZ3Jwc3B
JZAMxNzA1MDY1NzMyBG1zZ0lkAzExOTE4NwRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzI4Mjg
3OTMw)
Posted by: "rob.singer1111@yahoo.com" _rob.singer1111@yahoo.com _
(mailto:rob.singer1…@…com?Subject= Re:%20[vpFREE]%20Planned%20Vegas%20Trip)
_rob.singer1111 _ (http://profiles.yahoo.com/rob.singer1111)
Thu Feb 2, 2012 8:55 pm (PST)

If I were just starting out I'd stick with Tuscany out of that group and I
wouldn't go near El Cortez, Terribles, Sam's Town, or esp. Ellis Island.
The gross-out factor weighs far greater with me than whatever a property
offers for vp.

Don't get the wrong impression on your initial trip: visit the M, South
Point, Rampart, or even the Orleans or any of the beautiful hotels on and
around the Strip.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[haaljo_haaljo]

"...And who remembers the Odyssey VP with the bonus feature on those machines?..."

Bonus Round Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wef5WVEs4Vc

My recollection was 10/7 DB at Golden Nugget in Laughlin.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@... wrote:

I'd normally agree with your choices but here was the original request:

"I'm hunting for a single casino where I can play VP with the only object
to get comped for my room and food. My bankroll is limited, perhaps $3,000.
Certainly I don't require an expensive room or 5-star dining!"

I've never played at Ellis Island but I did dine there as a guest of some
local high-rollers & didn't get food poisoning. Locals recommend it due to
the long-time dining privileges which I'll leave for someone else to
describe. El Cortez, I also haven't stayed there either but did book a room which
was like straight out of the '50s & made a mental note to myself that I
would use it in the future if I needed to be Downtown. If was across the
street from the casino & access was guarded & required a room key. I avoided El
Cortez for years due to an image from a decade ago but I haven't
experienced any of it in the last 3 visits last year. Re Terribles, I'll defer to
your opinion since I haven't been there in a couple of years but this used to
be one of the best places to gamble & I'd invite Jean Scott to weigh in
with her insight since she used to gamble there frequently. Sam's Town - it's
been over a decade since I've been there so I can't comment about its
current state but that's a curious one to bring up since it's so far from the
Strip. Rampart is also an odd one due to its distance.

However, Rampart is a past favorite of mine. If anyone has the time, please
give us an update.

Since I've cut down my LV trips in frequency & duration, I don't have as
much time as before to visit some of the outlying casinos. It used to be the
best plays were in the off-Strip casinos & it's probably still that way.
However, to maximize you have to be a local because the incentives are
normally oriented toward getting you to show up on a frequent basis. Walk down
memory lane, Santa Fe & AZ Charlies was where I played the first multi-line
games (by Silicon Gaming) & it was FP Jokers Wild with 4700 RF. And who
remembers the Odeyssey VP with the bonus feature on those machines?

In a message dated 2/3/2012 8:52:14 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:

_Re: [vpFREE] Planned Vegas Trip _
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/119187;_ylc=X3oDMTJzZTcxdWtyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzQ2NDEwMTcEZ3Jwc3B
JZAMxNzA1MDY1NzMyBG1zZ0lkAzExOTE4NwRzZWMDZG1zZwRzbGsDdm1zZwRzdGltZQMxMzI4Mjg
3OTMw)
Posted by: "rob.singer1111@…" _rob.singer1111@… _
(mailto:rob.singer1111@…?Subject= Re:%20[vpFREE]%20Planned%20Vegas%20Trip)
_rob.singer1111 _ (http://profiles.yahoo.com/rob.singer1111)
Thu Feb 2, 2012 8:55 pm (PST)

If I were just starting out I'd stick with Tuscany out of that group and I
wouldn't go near El Cortez, Terribles, Sam's Town, or esp. Ellis Island.
The gross-out factor weighs far greater with me than whatever a property
offers for vp.

Don't get the wrong impression on your initial trip: visit the M, South
Point, Rampart, or even the Orleans or any of the beautiful hotels on and
around the Strip.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Mickey]

Well, let's see how much I can remember about playing this game.

1. The game is called Bonus Playoff which you can see at the top of the screen in the video.

2. The payscale in the video is a rare 9/6 Bonus Playoff. Although, I do remember them being in New York, New York and Slots of Fun. The great majority of machines had 8/5 Bonus Playoff. In both versions it's a "two pair even money" game.....and it's also a 5 coin game. The great majority of plays came off the 8/5 Bonus Playoff.

3. The game is a classic example of how a low bankroll could get a big edge and a big hourly rate. As an old buddy, Bill Hartman, used to say, it's "dollar money for playing quarter video poker."

4. The Oddyssey machines came out in 1997/98. They were all over Las Vegas, Laughlin, Reno and Tahoe.

5. I wasn't computerized back then and still going thru the learning curve of video poker, but I had a collection of books and articles. The consensus with the gurus was 8/5 Jacks was 97.3%, and two-pair represented 12.9% of the payback, so I put the base game at 84.4%.

6. It was easy enough to clock the meter, which started at 75 coins. It took 80 coins in action to put 5 coins in the meter. That's 6.25%. So I knew the game was somewhere above 90.65%.

7. The rest of the payback had to be determined by how often the Bonus Card came out and what my chances were of winning the showdown hand.

8. There were three characters that you rotated playing, The Riverboat Captain, The Riverboat Gambler, and the Dance Hall Girl. I'll use the Dance Hall Girl in this post.

9. I had no inside information on how often the Bonus Card came out. All I could do was count the number of hands I played using the progressive meter itself, 16 games put 5 coins in the meter. And I also counted the number of times the Bonus Card came out to get the average. I kept a log in my pocket notebook. I started out playing high numbers, high 200's. Eventually, as the sample space kept getting bigger and bigger, I put the frequency of catching the Bonus Card at 140.

10. The player in the video started filming after he caught the Bonus Card. You can see it on the left just above the meter. When you hit the deal button you are dealt five cards. If one of those cards is the Bonus Card, then it removes itself to just above the meter and another card is drawn to complete the five card hand. When you finish the hand then you play the showdown hand.

11. I put my chances in the showdown hand at 50/50 only if I could play the hand as good as the Dance Hall Girl. It took some observation, mathwork and practice to get up to speed.

12. The showdown hand was 5 card draw, one hand, winner take all. The Dance Hall Girl never drew more than three cards. If you look at the video you'll see that when she draws three cards the #1,#3,and #5 cards are removed. The replacement cards go into the same position. So when her hand was revealed I would be looking at the #2 and #4 cards to see what she held.

13. In the showdown hand it is about 50/50 that you will be dealt a no pair hand. Initially I was holding one high card like an Ace. I wasn't having a whole lot of luck doing that. I started mimicking the Dance Hall Girl and holding 2 high cards, even off suit. Hands like AK, AQ, etc. I eventually did the math and the chances of improving to a pair or better holding one card was about 33%, while holding 2 high cards, the chances of improving to a pair or better was 38%.

14. The Dance Hall Girl also held an Ace kicker with a pair. I started doing the same but was somewhat befuddled by it. Holding just the pair the chances to improve to two pair or trips was 27%, holding the kicker with the pair, the chances to improve to 2 pair of trips was 25%. But when you improve to 2 pair it's most likely Aces Up which is the boss two pair. I eventually concluded that I could play the showdown hand as good as the Dance Hall Girl.

15. So the average play was 280 games (140 X 2). With 15 bets already in the meter at preset, that added another 5.36%. So it was a 96% game. And now it was easy to determine a playable number. I wanted a 6% edge. If I found a machine with 215 coins in the meter it was exactly a 6% edge. This left a 3.5% edge without the Royal or Straight Flush. I often found meters way higher than 215. The highest I ever found was 565.

16. If you look at the video you will see that the game plays extremely slow. And every 16 games you have to wait while the dealer flips another 5 coins in the meter. It was all I could do to get out 8 hands a minute. But it was still a big hourly rate. At 215 coins the game was worth $36 an hour.

17. Later, when Charles Lund's book, "Robbing The One-Armed Bandits" came out, he put the frequency of catching the Bonus Card at 133. But I have no clue where he derived this information.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

"...And who remembers the Odyssey VP with the bonus feature on those machines?..."

Bonus Round Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wef5WVEs4Vc