vpFREE2 Forums

Pick'em poker - cost of mistakes

Hi all

Never played pick'em before. This week I fired up Dancer and played a
few games of pick'em. It seems like a very easy game to play. However,
it's not as forgiving when it comes to mistakes. In JOB a mistake at $1
level might cost a few pennies. In pick'em a mistake might cost 300
pennies. A bad play seems to cost a dramatic amount of cash. I think
this game should played with care. One mistake because of fast play
could cost profit for a few hours. I about half afraid to play this
game as it might screw up my mind for the other games I know well.

I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

Cheers....Jeep

PE machines are rarely set fast enough for anyone to worry about making a
mistake due to playing too fast... at least the ones that I have played. I
suspect they would be too easy to grind out a profit, given the right slot
club, if they could be played fast. So, they are set to roughly the same
speed as molasses in winter. You are right, I think, about the average PE
mistake costing much more than the average JB based game mistake.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
whitejeeps
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 8:16 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Pick'em poker - cost of mistakes

Hi all

Never played pick'em before. This week I fired up Dancer and played a
few games of pick'em. It seems like a very easy game to play. However,
it's not as forgiving when it comes to mistakes. In JOB a mistake at $1
level might cost a few pennies. In pick'em a mistake might cost 300
pennies. A bad play seems to cost a dramatic amount of cash. I think
this game should played with care. One mistake because of fast play
could cost profit for a few hours. I about half afraid to play this
game as it might screw up my mind for the other games I know well.

I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

Cheers....Jeep

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

How about a strategy with 11 lines and 2 rules?
http://www.frugalgambler.biz/strategycards/frugal_strategy_cards.htm

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@y...> wrote:

I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

Sorry, but I couldn't get it down to 10.

This is the strategy I wrote for Strictly Slots back in February
1999. I haven't read Dancer's strategy book for Pick'em, but you
don't get much simpler than this one (while still being 100% perfect
strategy). Why people would use a traditional 25-line strategy, I
have no idea.

As for the ease of Pick'em, not only are mistakes more costly, but
they can't be corrected. Pick'em is one of the few games that once
you hit a button, there's no correcting your result, unlike regular
video poker.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Short" <jmdshort@c...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@y...> wrote:
>

>
> I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

How about a strategy with 11 lines and 2 rules?
http://www.frugalgambler.biz/strategycards/frugal_strategy_cards.htm

I have seen Skip's card on the game (which is how I'm referring to the
one Jean sells --- a recent post seems to indicate that "toonces"
originally created it --- I don't know who the author actually is, but
it's a nice piece of work), as well as the Dancer/Daily version. Both
are well done and accurate.

The surprising thing about them though is that they are quite a bit
different! They both come up with the same play for any 4-card starting
position, but they get there differently. This is highly unusual in
video poker strategies. Usually the biggest difference between
strategies is the exact notation for such things 3-card straight flushes
with 1 high card and 2 insides. Dan, for example, uses "di" for "double
inside." Other authors use "2i" for the same thing. Daily and I combine
insides and high cards into one composite number. You can get used to
any of these systems. Other differences can include whether or not to
include penalty card situations --- but this is not an issue with
Pick'Em. Other differences include how to consolidate hands (such as is
it necessary to list QJT9, JT98, and 2345-789T separately in Jacks or
Better? They have different EVs, but they are strategically treated
exactly the same.)

But with Pick'Em, Skip's card and the Dancer/Daily card both have clever
ways to consolidate the information into fewer instructions. And they
are different clever ways. Highly unusual.

Bob Dancer

For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I also played PKM recently for the first time. I think a greater
danger than costly mistakes would be falling asleep. I'm sticking
with the multi-play JOB, at least you get the excitement of 'winning'
on every single hand!

wizardofodds has a strategy for PKM, not 10 lines though.

···

On 11/2/05, whitejeeps <whitejeeps@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi all

Never played pick'em before. This week I fired up Dancer and played a
few games of pick'em. It seems like a very easy game to play. However,
it's not as forgiving when it comes to mistakes. In JOB a mistake at $1
level might cost a few pennies. In pick'em a mistake might cost 300
pennies. A bad play seems to cost a dramatic amount of cash. I think
this game should played with care. One mistake because of fast play
could cost profit for a few hours. I about half afraid to play this
game as it might screw up my mind for the other games I know well.

I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

Cheers....Jeep

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>
> I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

How about a strategy with 11 lines and 2 rules?
http://www.frugalgambler.biz/strategycards/frugal_strategy_cards.htm

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Short" <jmdshort@c...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@y...> wrote:

===============
I like to play PE. I have condensed the strategy to 6 lines with
2 rules. This strategy assumes you break ties using Dancer rules of
high cards minus insides. For each line, there is one case where the
line below will be a better choice.

High Pair (except take RF with no Ace)
SF (except take low pair when SF has 2 insides and no HC)
Low Pair (except take FL with 2 HC)
FL (except take ST with no insides and extra HC)
ST (except take extra HC if ST has 2 insides)
HC

Rule 1 With two SF, take one with fewer insides
Rule 2 When deciding between two ST with same value (HC minus
insides) take one with extra HC

I highly recommend Dancer PE guide and Winpoker to practice.

Keith

Hello Keith, what is the ER of your strategy?

Don

···

kls6792 <klsechler@aol.com> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Short" <jmdshort@c...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@y...> wrote:
>

>
> I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

How about a strategy with 11 lines and 2 rules?
http://www.frugalgambler.biz/strategycards/frugal_strategy_cards.htm

===============
I like to play PE. I have condensed the strategy to 6 lines with
2 rules. This strategy assumes you break ties using Dancer rules of
high cards minus insides. For each line, there is one case where the
line below will be a better choice.

High Pair (except take RF with no Ace)
SF (except take low pair when SF has 2 insides and no HC)
Low Pair (except take FL with 2 HC)
FL (except take ST with no insides and extra HC)
ST (except take extra HC if ST has 2 insides)
HC

Rule 1 With two SF, take one with fewer insides
Rule 2 When deciding between two ST with same value (HC minus
insides) take one with extra HC

I highly recommend Dancer PE guide and Winpoker to practice.

Keith

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have seen Skip's card on the game (which is how I'm referring to

the

one Jean sells --- a recent post seems to indicate that "toonces"
originally created it --- I don't know who the author actually is,

but

it's a nice piece of work), as well as the Dancer/Daily version.

Both

are well done and accurate.

The surprising thing about them though is that they are quite a bit
different!
  
But with Pick'Em, Skip's card and the Dancer/Daily card both have

clever

ways to consolidate the information into fewer instructions. And

they

are different clever ways. Highly unusual.

Bob Dancer

Thanks for the kind words, Bob. Toonces is AKA Scott Katz, who Skip
Hughes gives credit to developing the "Logical" strategy. When
Pick'em started showing up on the radar in 1998, the software
programs of that time didn't work with it. I'm not great with
computer programming, but since there are only 1128 possible draws
with each hand, I was able to use Excel to generate the EVs of all
the hands. Then by ignoring all of the hands that could not occur
simultaneously, I was able to reduce the game to the strategy to what
appears on the back of the Frugal cards. I had posted the strategy
on the Skip Hughes listserv of the day, and Skip asked to use the
strategy for eventual publication on his strategy cards, which he
did. I also wrote an article in Strictly Slots in February 1999 with
the strategy. Hey, it's my big claim to fame as a published
author. :slight_smile:

Scott Katz

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@c...> wrote:

Toonces! I love that name! Are you a cat-owner? Sorry for the off-topic post, but I tried to send you a private email and it came back!

CAT

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "tooncesthecatwhocoulddriveacar" <tooncessnl@hotmail.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 4:20 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Pick'em poker - cost of mistakes

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Short" <jmdshort@c...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "whitejeeps" <whitejeeps@y...> wrote:
>

>
> I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

How about a strategy with 11 lines and 2 rules?
http://www.frugalgambler.biz/strategycards/frugal_strategy_cards.htm

Sorry, but I couldn't get it down to 10.

This is the strategy I wrote for Strictly Slots back in February
1999. I haven't read Dancer's strategy book for Pick'em, but you
don't get much simpler than this one (while still being 100% perfect
strategy). Why people would use a traditional 25-line strategy, I
have no idea.

As for the ease of Pick'em, not only are mistakes more costly, but
they can't be corrected. Pick'em is one of the few games that once
you hit a button, there's no correcting your result, unlike regular
video poker.

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

Maybe I'm simple, but I enjoy playing PE when the advantage is good. The PE
bartops at the Hilton were a sweet play for me when the CB was .55 and the
marketing goodies and comps were strong. Low variance and surprisingly
modest bankroll requirements.

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
LHOOQ
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 3:55 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Pick'em poker - cost of mistakes

I also played PKM recently for the first time. I think a greater
danger than costly mistakes would be falling asleep. I'm sticking
with the multi-play JOB, at least you get the excitement of 'winning'
on every single hand!

wizardofodds has a strategy for PKM, not 10 lines though.

On 11/2/05, whitejeeps <whitejeeps@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi all

Never played pick'em before. This week I fired up Dancer and played a
few games of pick'em. It seems like a very easy game to play. However,
it's not as forgiving when it comes to mistakes. In JOB a mistake at $1
level might cost a few pennies. In pick'em a mistake might cost 300
pennies. A bad play seems to cost a dramatic amount of cash. I think
this game should played with care. One mistake because of fast play
could cost profit for a few hours. I about half afraid to play this
game as it might screw up my mind for the other games I know well.

I would bet one could make a cheat sheet with about 10 lines..

Cheers....Jeep

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello Keith, what is the ER of your strategy?

Don

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Donald Ross <hedonist144@y...> wrote:

This strategy will allow you to earn the full return from PE (99.95%).
You should get no errors when practicing on Winpoker.

Keith

You also have to realize that the version of pick'em that is in
winpoker is played slightly different than pick'em in real life.

In winpoker, once you select a stack from the two chices on the right,
that choice is set and the three cards are automatically dealt out.
You get no chance to change your mind and select the other stack
instead.

The pick'em at the casinos allow you to choose between the two stacks
multiple times before you settle on your decision. You must hit the
draw button before your final choice is dealt out on the screen.

This makes the winpoker version of pick'em a bit unforgiving.

Just my observations.

Gail in Seattle

I haven't played Pick'em lately, but all the machines I ever played worked the same as BDPW. Once you press the button the cards are dealt. This is quite unforgiving and has been one of the peculiar characteristics of Pick'em. Perhaps the new machines are diferent.
Skip

cgsmithpnw wrote:

···

The pick'em at the casinos allow you to choose between the two stacks multiple times before you settle on your decision. You must hit the draw button before your final choice is dealt out on the screen.

This makes the winpoker version of pick'em a bit unforgiving.

Just my observations.

Gail in Seattle

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

--
Thanks!
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com

Ditto. Now if the VP programs would stop popping up a message "Choose
one pile or the other" (DUH) especailly without using the "esc" key
ability to close the window(keyboard commands people!!!). PKM
machines in casinos(all the ones I have seen) ignore the draw button,
so should the trainer programs.

dipy911

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:

I haven't played Pick'em lately, but all the machines I ever played
worked the same as BDPW. Once you press the button the cards are dealt.
This is quite unforgiving and has been one of the peculiar
characteristics of Pick'em. Perhaps the new machines are diferent.
Skip

cgsmithpnw wrote:

>The pick'em at the casinos allow you to choose between the two stacks
>multiple times before you settle on your decision. You must hit the
>draw button before your final choice is dealt out on the screen.
>
>This makes the winpoker version of pick'em a bit unforgiving.
>
>Just my observations.

Me too.

I haven't played Pick'em lately, but all the machines I ever

played

worked the same as BDPW. Once you press the button the cards are

dealt.

This is quite unforgiving and has been one of the peculiar
characteristics of Pick'em. Perhaps the new machines are diferent.
Skip

cgsmithpnw wrote:

>The pick'em at the casinos allow you to choose between the two

stacks

>multiple times before you settle on your decision. You must hit

the

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:

>draw button before your final choice is dealt out on the screen.
>
>This makes the winpoker version of pick'em a bit unforgiving.
>
>Just my observations.
>
>Gail in Seattle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Thanks!
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cgsmithpnw" <gheverlysmith@u...>
wrote:

You also have to realize that the version of pick'em that is in
winpoker is played slightly different than pick'em in real life.

In winpoker, once you select a stack from the two chices on the

right,

that choice is set and the three cards are automatically dealt

out.

You get no chance to change your mind and select the other stack
instead.

The pick'em at the casinos allow you to choose between the two

stacks

multiple times before you settle on your decision. You must hit

the

···

draw button before your final choice is dealt out on the screen.

This makes the winpoker version of pick'em a bit unforgiving.

Just my observations.

Gail in Seattle

_____________________________________________________________________

   That's not the way it's played in the casinos I frequent around
the country. Hit the screen or hit the button, that stack is yours.
Period! You "don't" get a second chance.
There have been a few times when (usually after a few drinks) I've
selected the wrong button and have always wondered what I would have
gotten if I had only punched the right one.

   Terrence "VP Pappy" Murphy (Midwest Casino Guide)

   "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall free you from
playing lousy games."
                      --VP Pappy