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Phil Ivey Accused of Baccarat Scheme

I don't know current practice, which may well have changed since I visited England and its casinos over twenty years ago (maybe more). At that time, all casinos were private "clubs" - you joined and had to wait 48 hours before you could play. I was identified as a card counter (presumably, they never actually said) and on my second visit was told my "membership had been cancelled" - with no reason why, just a repetition of the fact - and was not allowed to enter.

I did get (after a long time) a refund of my membership fee (I think ten pounds). Interestingly, the rules of the game were such that it was a nearly impossible game to beat, I just wanted to experience the casino -- and the one time I played, I lost. It was my understanding that cancelling the membership was the standard approach (again, at that time) to card counters. With the rules they had, they didn't have too much to worry about; in order to beat the game, one would have needed to vary one's bet quite a bit, making you easy to identify as a card counter. In their defense, there were many wealthy patrons gambling there, and they certainly could have been at risk for big losses if they allowed a high roller to play with a big bet spread.

Of course, I've been barred from casinos in Nevada, mostly when I was losing there too; you don't have to be winning for a casino to bar you from blackjack, just need to look like you might win soon :slight_smile:

--BG

2a. Re: Phil Ivey Accused of Baccarat Scheme

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Here's another article.

It makes an interesting statement that casinos can withhold
winnings if players are counting cards in blackjack. I
wasn't aware that was the case. Maybe that is true in
England though, in which case Ivey picked a bad place for
this play.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/62856/the-curious-case-of-poker-pro-phil-iveys-punto-banco-rake

I think most of us were already aware that casinos can and do bar card counters. The part of the article that stood out for me was the statement that casinos can WITHHOLD WINNINGS from card counters. That is something I was not aware of and was wondering if that was just a description of gaming laws in England.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Barry Glazer <b.glazer@...> wrote:

Any casino can always withhold winnings, and they like to do this as well. In Nevada, you need to immediately contact gaming, their number is on your cellphone, right? My guess is the Nevada gaming control officer will rule in the favor of the patron if the only reason is "suspected card counter" but no doubt there have been exceptions, in which case you have to appeal and you probably need a lawyer. Nersesian's number is on your cell phone as well, right? All gamblers need to keep in mind that despite what casino marketing claims, casinos (and losing gamblers) hate winners. The first step to being a successful gambler is to win, the second step is to actually collect those winnings and get them out of the casino without being mugged in the parking lot or in the hotel.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "seedub49" <seedub49@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Barry Glazer <b.glazer@> wrote:
>

I think most of us were already aware that casinos can and do bar card counters. The part of the article that stood out for me was the statement that casinos can WITHHOLD WINNINGS from card counters. That is something I was not aware of and was wondering if that was just a description of gaming laws in England.