vpFREE2 Forums

Peppermill Security Policy

#21

Maybe there was some miscommunication. I wasn't trash talking
professional poker players. The problem here is Peppermill management.
A lot of people are afraid to take on the Peppermill because of the
background of the owners. But the situation won't change until
citizens start asserting their unalienable rights. The Peppermill is
not a sovereign nation, it is subject to the rule of law of the United
States. Professional poker playing is a profession, not servitude.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
> > He probably had to sign something to get the trespass charge
> > dropped.
>
> Without talking to a lawyer first? He's never heard of the Miranda
> Rights? He probably signed away his shot at the biggest jackpot of his
> life. A poker player should know it hardly ever pays to be passive.
>
> http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Jul-06-Sun-
2003/news/21616613.html
>
> "The casinos are committing crimes when they take someone to the
> backroom against their will for the purpose of evicting or questioning
> them. It's second-degree kidnapping." - BOB NERSESIAN ATTORNEY"
>
Every damn one of you keep going off into tangents. You don't know the
life of a professional gambler. You think you do, but you don't. Try
walkling the life of a professional gambler. Try it on for size.
Let's see whst you do, big fella. You got some trash to talk? Try
talkimg that trash to a man who has lived it.

#22

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@...>
wrote:

>

Apparently being a professional gambler makes
you very angry.

World, you've tried picking on me before. It's the only time you come
out of the woodwork. What's up with that? What's your problem?

#23

This is the first time I have ever heard of someone in upper
management trumping Security. Casino security is an autonomous
operation supposedly so they can't be compromised. But, evidently,
someone in upper management at the Peppermill didn't like what
happened and made Security correct it.

As for all this talk about suing the Peppermill, I don't get it. Al
was detained for trespass because he repeatedly refused to leave the
property. Casinos have the right to 86 anyone without cause. Can
anyone cite a case where someone repeatedly refused to leave a
casino, got charged with trespass, then beat the charge. That's what
Al would have to do in order to have a case in civil court.

Al was not "backroomed" like some blackjack player beating the
house. He was a witness to a mugging. He voluntarily went with
Security to give his version of what happened to them and the
Police. He was not held against his will, not searched, or anything
like that. It was after he was through giving his version of what
happened to Security and the Police that he was told he was 86's and
would have to immediately leave the property. Sure, it was not right
that Security did that, but they had the right to do it. He was
warned twice to leave the property, he didn't leave. It is all on
film and audio. He was not touched until he was detained for
trespass.

One does not have the right to a jury trial for a misdemeanor charge
in Nevada. You can ask the judge to grant you a jury trial but they
never grant it. The judges are casino friendly. F. Lee Bailey
couldn't get Al off on the charge if Peppermill Security pushed it.

#24

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@>
wrote:
>
> >
>
> Apparently being a professional gambler makes
> you very angry.
>
>
World, you've tried picking on me before. It's the only time you

come

out of the woodwork. What's up with that? What's your problem?

Appologies Mickey, I didn't mean to swipe at you personally. I
didn't really even notice your name attached to the post, I was
really reacting to the text. To be open, I was really going for a
laugh. The tone of your post was pretty harsh though. I think most
folks here really enjoy your posts (me included). I think you could
have shared your insights with less anger. Tell you what though, I
won't respond to any more of your posts and then there won't be any
confusion about my intent. Enjoy your holiday weekend.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

#25

That's why you need a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer but even I know the
trick is to go through the hoops and appeal to the federal level,
where the judges are not at all casino friendly. You could try to do
this yourself, but most likely only a lawyer knows the specific tricks
involved, that's why they are lawyers. Also, even before court phases,
almost all businesses will negotiate much better terms with a lawyer
than with an individual citizen, they pretty much know they can push
individual citizens around as long as they have lawyers and you do
not. Don't pick a dog fight without a dog.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

The judges are casino friendly.

#26

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

> The judges are casino friendly.

That's why you need a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer but even I know the
trick is to go through the hoops and appeal to the federal level,
where the judges are not at all casino friendly. You could try to do
this yourself, but most likely only a lawyer knows the specific tricks
involved, that's why they are lawyers. Also, even before court phases,
almost all businesses will negotiate much better terms with a lawyer
than with an individual citizen, they pretty much know they can push
individual citizens around as long as they have lawyers and you do
not. Don't pick a dog fight without a dog.

I have read Bob Nercessian's book and interviews of him online. He has
stated that Nevada tort lawyers don't like these kind of cases because
there is no money in them. Nercessian is a crusader. According to
Nercessian most cases of a casino patron who did nothing wrong but
got "backroomed" settle for between $5,000 and $15,000. And if you read
his book, he requested that no one contact him because he is backed up
with cases, but rather, find another lawyer.

And his cases were those of people who wanted to leave but were not
allowed to leave. One of his bits of advice to blackjack players who
get accosted by security is to repeately request to leave the
property. You want to say it on the casino floor, look up into the
camera and point towards the door, and when they get you in back where
film and audio is recording everything continue to request to leave.

Al has a lawyer who escorted him to the casino to get his money. What
advice he gave Al I don't know but he must have given him some. And
Al's case is nothing like a Nercessian case. He did not repeately
request to leave, rather, he refused to leave. The right to refuse
service goes all the way back to 16th century English law-a man's home
is his castle, and by extension, so is his business. He/She has the
right to refuse service and bar you off their property.

There is no way in hell a person is going to beat the charge of
trespass when he is on film and audio repeately refusing to leave. Most
Nevada lawyers would get somewhere between $1500 and $3000 to take a
case like that to trial. How long would the appeals process be?. I
don't even know if one can take a misdemeanor conviction to the federal
level, but even if one could, what are we talking, 2 or three years.
What would the cost be?

And let's say miracle of miracles the case was overturned. Then what?
I think it took Grossjean 3 1/2 years to get his civil case into
court.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

#27

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@...>
wrote:

>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > Apparently being a professional gambler makes
> > you very angry.
> >
> >
> World, you've tried picking on me before. It's the only time you
come
> out of the woodwork. What's up with that? What's your problem?
>

Appologies Mickey, I didn't mean to swipe at you personally. I
didn't really even notice your name attached to the post, I was
really reacting to the text. To be open, I was really going for a
laugh. The tone of your post was pretty harsh though. I think

most

folks here really enjoy your posts (me included). I think you

could

have shared your insights with less anger. Tell you what though, I
won't respond to any more of your posts and then there won't be any
confusion about my intent. Enjoy your holiday weekend.

Well, I got into a tiff with my sweetheart last night and took the
anger out in the wrong place. My apologies to you and anyone else
who may have been offened. Good luck.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

#28

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

> The judges are casino friendly.

That's why you need a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer but even I know the
trick is to go through the hoops and appeal to the federal level,
where the judges are not at all casino friendly. You could try to do
this yourself, but most likely only a lawyer knows the specific tricks
involved, that's why they are lawyers. Also, even before court phases,
almost all businesses will negotiate much better terms with a lawyer
than with an individual citizen, they pretty much know they can push
individual citizens around as long as they have lawyers and you do
not. Don't pick a dog fight without a dog.
**********************************************************************

per state law the casinos have the same right to make u leave as u & i
have in tossing somebody out of our home ie:its a private not public
place, no reason needed.

M J

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

#29

I talked with Al last night and told him he was a subject of discussion
of vpFREE. He told me a couple of things and I asked him if I could
quote him. He said yes. Here is what he said.

"Between the poker room and the video poker at the Peppermill I've made
$300,000 over the past 7 years."

"In order to win you have to know how to lose."

#30

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

> The judges are casino friendly.

That's why you need a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer but even I know the
trick is to go through the hoops and appeal to the federal level,
where the judges are not at all casino friendly. You could try to do
this yourself, but most likely only a lawyer knows the specific tricks
involved, that's why they are lawyers. Also, even before court phases,
almost all businesses will negotiate much better terms with a lawyer
than with an individual citizen, they pretty much know they can push
individual citizens around as long as they have lawyers and you do
not. Don't pick a dog fight without a dog.

As Mickey stated, the guy didn't have much of a case. They asked him
to leave, he refused and was trespassed. Now you could go out and
hire an attorney but that's going to cost you thousands. Bob
Nersesian is my attorney and I can tell you that his retainer is
hefty. Hell, he'll tell you that. So you'd have to come up with a
significant amount of money for a retainer then you'd have to pay for
the case (unless he took it on contingency which I doubt since there
isn't much of a case here) if you have a jury trial this could run you
another $10-$20k. If you lose and you want to take it up on appeal
then you have to find errors in the trial to appeal. You can't just
appeal because you lost, it doesn't work like that. But let's say the
judge made an error in instructions or something and you appeal.
You're shelling out another $10-20k+ now. Let's say you eventually
win somehow. What are your damages? Nobody laid a hand on you.
Nobody violated your rights (a casino can 86 anyone for any reason).
The casino was stupid in their actions but what damages do you expect
to be awarded? You might be out $50,000 or more at this point and get
nothing at all. Not too intelligent in my opinion.

As for negotiating "much better terms" by hiring an attorney, again
what are you looking for? The guy was trespassed then it was
reversed. The casino would laugh at you for trying to settle for
money when you really have no case and you'd be left with spending
outrageous sums of money for nothing.

I think the Peppermill was out of line but as Mickey said, someone in
upper management recognized this and reversed it. That's the best
resolution possible in this case.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:

#31

You must not be doing so well as a professional gambler because your
post sounds as though you are very angry at people or maybe you are
having a bad l;osing streak and you are upset with everybody and
everything. I really don't think any of the postings were directed at
the player but more so at the management of a very nice casino. IMHO
P.S. I hope things get better for you. :slight_smile:

"

>
Every damn one of you keep going off into tangents. You don't know

the

life of a professional gambler. You think you do, but you don't.

Try

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

walkling the life of a professional gambler. Try it on for size.
Let's see whst you do, big fella. You got some trash to talk? Try
talkimg that trash to a man who has lived it.

#32

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gamblinggrandma" <gamblinggrandma@...>
wrote:

You must not be doing so well as a professional gambler because your
post sounds as though you are very angry at people or maybe you are
having a bad l;osing streak and you are upset with everybody and
everything. I really don't think any of the postings were directed

at

the player but more so at the management of a very nice casino. IMHO
P.S. I hope things get better for you. :slight_smile:

I apologized for that post already. But I will do it again. I
apologize to anyone who was offended by that post. I was ticked off at
my girlfriend. But there has been some movement where Toni is
concerned and we are back all lovey dovey again. I'm not on a losing
streak. Only a blind video poker player could lose on my play.