vpFREE2 Forums

Pepp doesnt like winners

#1

I've been staying away from this thread to avoid getting dragged into a call
for backup statistics however, I think it's time to lay off of NOTI (Night
of the Iguana) since I can see that both sides are right given the definition
of the groups referred to. I'll venture that the group NOTI refers to are the
locals & frequent players who win consistently. "jimnkelli", Jonathan et al
are also winners but are occasional visitors who might show up quarterly
instead of daily when there's a good promotion. |'ve talked to locals who have
said the same thing that NOTI has said but through our conversation the ones who
were comp-limited were heavy players & also showed up often. I have also had
a similar experience to "jimnkelli" but only one night & no limo ride
(staying at Peppermill) but have not seen any change or downgrade in my mailings.
An example of a good promotion is the current one "Rainbows of Cash" which is
in the middle of a 3-month run. I might be able to do this once during the 3
months. The frequent players will probably do it every week for the maximum
amount ($300 of free play each week). I don't know the criteria that
Peppermill uses to cull players but I'll relate an Eldorado story where they didn't
cull the players but killed the promotion. Eldorado used to have a very good
"Treasures" card swipe that awarded various prizes from trinkets to cash (I
once got $1000). The higher your tier level the better your prizes it seemed
like. It's still there but just a shadow of what it was due to customer abuse.
The person swiping the card should have been the card holder but you would
sometimes stand behind someone swiping a dozen cards. I would venture to say
that when Eldorado saw that some accounts had a high card swipe % that they got
tired of awarding prizes for not showing up & decided to cut back thus
penalizing all players instead of the abusers. NOTI is drawing attention to his
plight by describing his situation. I really like his contribution to this board
but I can't push his cause since we're not in the same wagon.

Breakage rate: the rate at which offers are NOT redeemed. When breakage is
near absolute 0 wouldn't you get suspicious?

In a message dated 4/23/2008 7:55:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com writes:

2a. Pepp doesnt like winners
Posted by: "jimnkelli" jbecker11@charter.net jimnkelli

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark_my_words_again@>
wrote:
> I agree with Jonathan that I see NO evidence of Reno 'crackdowns' on
> winners and I sure wish you'd present facts rather than make
> innuendos. Why do purport this notion that Pepps punishes winners? I
> don't get it.
>
> ~MARK

I can verify what NOTI is stating. It is a fact that the Pepp has
backed off quite a few winners.

I am a little late to the party, but my first trip to Reno about 18
months ago. I went to the Pepp on sat. hit several jackpots and they
sent me back to my other hotel in a limo ahead $10,000 for the day.

I went back on sun. and won about another $10k and they fed us and
sent us back in a limo again.

My offers were great at first, and have come down some, but my host is
great and will do anything for me (within reason) and I still get
offers to date after several more trips, some + and some -.

**************Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car
listings at AOL Autos.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

Date: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:37 am ((PDT))
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "hockeystl" <vegasstl@...> wrote:

#2

An example of a good promotion is the current one "Rainbows of

Cash" which is

in the middle of a 3-month run. I might be able to do this once

during the 3

months. The frequent players will probably do it every week for the

maximum

amount ($300 of free play each week). I don't know the criteria that
Peppermill uses to cull players ...

Yeah, there probably is some sweet spot, if you don't play at all you
can't win, but if you play too much you get the axe. I don't know the
criteria either, seems to vary from the reports I've gathered.

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@... wrote:

#3

I do believe that my good and very intelligent friend, TedChee, has
hit the nail squarely on the head.

The casinos in their infinite delusion must assume that the locals are
all APs and the out of town visitors are not!

The other smart gamblers on this list, including Jim, Jonathan, Mark
(and I immodestly include myself) are all non-Reno locals. Therefore,
we are viewed more innocuously by the casino suits, and continue to
receive good offers despite winning trips.

Having switched to the Atlantis almost two years ago, I can no longer
comment on current Peppermill practices. However, I have many fond
memories of my former long time Reno home casino. I can state that
during that period (prior to the Summer of 2006) that I was
never "punished" in any way by winning. I did see a direct
correlation between my total trip c/i and the amount of comps and FP
that I later received, regardless of a winning or losing trip.

~Babe`

···

=================================================
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@... wrote:

.......... I can see that both sides are right given the definition
of the groups referred to. I'll venture that the group NOTI refers
to are the locals & frequent players who win consistently.
"jimnkelli", Jonathan et al are also winners but are occasional
visitors who might show up quarterly instead of daily when there's a
good promotion...............................

#4

I have to also thank NotI for his posts. That's actually the big value
of this board is to share the experiences.
I've been convinced since posting on this topic that locals and
visitors get quite different treatment and the back-offs are true for
some players.
Still, it'd be nice to learn details of the back-offs, but I
understand the paranoia against sharing personal details.
Babe- nice of you to throw me in to the smart player category, but I'm
actually blissfully ignorant of Pepps comps; I'm just lucky to have a
great host and lucky to have winning trips a bit more than half the time.
Far from being punished for profitable visits in Oct and Dec'07, I got
the "Royal-est" treatment ever this past April visit- a 17th floor
Florence Suite in the Tuscany Tower, 100% comped for 5 nights.
Checkout bill: $0.
~MARK
--- Babe wrote:

···

I do believe that my good and very intelligent friend, TedChee, has
hit the nail squarely on the head.
The casinos in their infinite delusion must assume that the locals
are all APs and the out of town visitors are not!

The other smart gamblers on this list, including Jim, Jonathan, Mark
(and I immodestly include myself) are all non-Reno locals.

#5

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
<jackessiebabe@...> wrote:

Having switched to the Atlantis almost two years ago, I can no longer
comment on current Peppermill practices. However, I have many fond
memories of my former long time Reno home casino. I can state that
during that period (prior to the Summer of 2006) that I was
never "punished" in any way by winning. I did see a direct
correlation between my total trip c/i and the amount of comps and FP
that I later received, regardless of a winning or losing trip.

Can I ask why you switched or selected only one? It does appear that
they share information and want you to pick one and not play at both
casinos, jealousy maybe. Also the situation is always changing,
depending on who is running the show and what their attitude is,
before 2006 was quite different than after 2006.

#6

I loved my host at the Pepp, and also enjoyed staying at the casino
very much. As a matter of fact it was one of my really "lucky" {{O:
places! I hated to leave.

I switched to Atlantis for two reasons; One, the quality of their VP
inventory was much superior to Pepp after the Pepp downgraded and
removed much of their good VP in 2006. Two, I could tell that the
comps at Pepp were getting more difficult to acquire. Though my room
was always fully pre-comped, I was occasionally denied a food comp.
This had NEVER happened in the prior 10 years that I stayed at Pepp.
So far it has never happened at Atlantis either.

I have heard from a reliable source, that the Pepp and Atlantis do
trade info. Despite this, they seem very competitive with each other.

I was personally playing at Atlantis when the Slot Director addressed
all of us players seated at the 10/7DB prog. bank. He explained that
they were changing the pay table to 9/7 the next day. (It has since
been changed back to 10/7). There was a great hue and cry of
protest. He explained that he would either have to discontinue comps
for players at that bank, or change the pay table. His reason; the
Atlantis had "inherited" all the good VP players from the Pepp when
the Pepp downgraded many of their machines.

~Babe~

···

=========================================
In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com,<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Can I ask why you switched or selected only one? It does appear that
they share information and want you to pick one and not play at both
casinos, jealousy maybe. Also the situation is always
changing,depending on who is running the show and what their attitude
is, before 2006 was quite different than after 2006.

In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com,<jackessiebabe@> wrote:

Having switched to the Atlantis almost two years ago, I can no longer
comment on the Peppermill..........

#7

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
<jackessiebabe@...> wrote:

Two, I could tell that the
comps at Pepp were getting more difficult to acquire. Though my room
was always fully pre-comped, I was occasionally denied a food comp.

They "randomly" adjust comp, actually, it's not so random, basically,
as you win (running win, not a one time luck out event) they remove
("adjust") some of your comp, eventually you have none or go negative
(you haven't heard any of the Peppermill negative comp stories?).
Also, usually, those great "free rooms" are deducted from your comp.
Apparently the theory is that if you win you don't deserve comp also.
Apparently gaming lets them get away with this since they don't
specify any specifics of how you earn comp and how long it stays in
your account. There are also rumors about a lot of comp theft,
internal and external, with the card club as it is, someone could
easily be stealing your comp without you really knowing it.

#8

random, basically,as you win (running win, not a one time luck out
event) they remove("adjust") some of your comp, eventually you have
none or go negative (you haven't heard any of the Peppermill
negative comp stories?).

···

In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" wrote:

They (Pepp) "randomly" adjust comp, actually, it's not so

=================================================
As a matter of fact I have heard a "negative comp" story. I was
actually told that I had been "over-comped" on prior trip, and that
only 3 of 5 nights could be "pre-comped" on the next trip. I didn't
think too much about it at the time as I was suffering with a
badback problem, that caused me so much pain that I didn't play
nearly my usual c/i amount. I probably should have stayed home, but
foolishly decided to tough it out. As it happened, on my next trip I
played lots, and everything, including meals, was comped by my host
at check-out time.

I have also heard similar stories from friends who were told that
they had been over-comped. That's when I seriously began
investigating opportunties at other Reno properties.

Shortly after that I started dividing my time between the Pepp and
the Silver Legacy, and parted company with Pepp when too many of my
fave machines went MIA.

I still stay/play at the SL on occasion, but am not happy with their
general negative view of VP players.

I have since concentrated ALL of my play at Atlantis, where, so far,
I have always been treated exceedingly well. Evidently, right now,
they are the best fit for my playing enjoyment.

However, I do believe that VP inventory, playing conditions, ease of
securing comps/FP/CB etc., are cyclical. Therefore, I'm always
prepared to leave my current Reno home casino, and try out a new
venue.

There are also rumors about a lot of comp theft, internal and

external, with the card club as it is, someone could easily be
stealing your comp without you really knowing it.

Do you actually believe that SLOT CLUB personnel are stealing
comps? Or are you talking about carelessly leaving your card in a
machine for some unscrupulous person to use?

~Babe~

#9

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
<jackessiebabe@...> wrote:

Do you actually believe that SLOT CLUB personnel are stealing
comps? Or are you talking about carelessly leaving your card in a
machine for some unscrupulous person to use?

Both, and more.

#10

Do you actually believe that SLOT CLUB personnel are stealing
comps? Or are you talking about carelessly leaving your card in a
machine for some unscrupulous person to use?

···

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe wrote:

==============================================
--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com,<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Both, and more.

If this is true, it is a very frightening thought! A casino version
of "identity theft".

Did you receive this information from a very reliable source? Did
this happen to you personally? Do you know whether the alleged
thievery was reported to casino officials? Do you attribute this
egregious stealing only to Reno properties, or to all gambling
venues?

I can't imagine that casinos would knowingly permit this type of
illegal and scandulous conduct on the part of their employees.

I'm hoping that if this has happened, that it's been just a few
isolated instances, and not widespead!

~Babe~

#11

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "jackessiebabe"
<jackessiebabe@...> wrote:

Did you receive this information from a very reliable source? Did
this happen to you personally? Do you know whether the alleged
thievery was reported to casino officials? Do you attribute this
egregious stealing only to Reno properties, or to all gambling
venues?

It's a problem with "don't ask, won't tell" card clubs. I can tell you
that I personally have lost thousands in "don't ask, won't tell"
comps. Were these loses intentional on the part of marketing (penalty
for winning) or were they due to theft, I don't know, and maybe the
casino doesn't know either. If your comp total can be routinely
"adjusted" up or down and in large amounts, even into the negative,
how can anybody know what it should actually be, how can anybody keep
track of possible theft, which is always a potential problem at any
casino? If you notice a reduction in your comp even though you did not
use it and you know it hasn't expired, what can you do? You can
complain to the card desk or your host and they will tell you the same
story, comp is routinely "adjusted" based on the games you play, maybe
you used it and just forgot, maybe your card wasn't in the machine
correctly, maybe you played a machine that was too generous and had to
be "adjusted", maybe a friend used it and didn't tell you ... I have
had situations with a regular card club where my comp total changed -
I've complained and in every case the casino (unable to account for
the change) has reversed it, they probably have to otherwise gaming
would be on their case. But with a "don't ask, won't tell" card club,
they tell you upfront that your comp can be "adjusted" at any time and
that they don't have to tell you exactly why the "adjustment" was
made, I've even been told several times that they can't tell why an
"adjustment" was made, but it's that way in the computer and they have
to go by the computer. Then there's always the old fallback, the
customer isn't supposed to know their comp total anyway.

#12

--- In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

It's a problem with "don't ask, won't tell" card clubs. I can tell you
that I personally have lost thousands in "don't ask, won't tell"
comps. Were these loses intentional on the part of marketing (penalty
for winning) or were they due to theft, I don't know, and maybe the
casino doesn't know either. If your comp total can be routinely
"adjusted" up or down and in large amounts, even into the negative,
how can anybody know what it should actually be, how can anybody
you used it and just forgot, maybe your card wasn't in the machine
correctly, maybe you played a machine that was too generous and had to
be "adjusted", maybe a friend used it and didn't tell you ... I have
had situations with a regular card club where my comp total changed

-andhave

to go by the computer. Then there's always the old fallback, the
customer isn't supposed to know their comp total anyway.

Another good reason to play at JA Nuggett.... they have positive VP
and your comp balance is displayed every time you insert your "John's
Card" in any machine. The comps are .67% on VP and 1% on slots, the
most generous in the Reno area. For 80K per year coin in, the mail
offers are very generous and the rooms are as good as Atlantis and
Pepp. The indoor pool is heads and shoulders above the "pond" at
Atlantis. If they would only have a no smoking area, they would get
twice to three times the coin-in from me.

#13

In vpFREE_Reno@yahoogroups.com,

I have also heard similar stories from friends who
were told that
they had been over-comped. That's when I seriously
began
investigating opportunties at other Reno properties.

However, I do believe that VP inventory, playing
conditions, ease of
securing comps/FP/CB etc., are cyclical. Therefore,
I'm always
prepared to leave my current Reno home casino, and
try out a new
venue.

***********************************************

Agree, Long time listeners might remember a problem I
had with Atlantis in the past about missing comps,
but it was a good thing .

I found the Pepp by emailing a request for free rooms
with the my story about my problems, 45 min later got
3 free nights & havent paid since.

But, changes in machines & attitudes at the Pepp plus
generous friend got me back at the Atlantis again.

So far getting free rooms & food so i am happy.

But William got me thinking about JA nugget, stayed &
played there in 70s & liked it but I was playin BJ &
craps at the time, just started learning JOB .

Babe your right , must have options.

M J

···

--- jackessiebabe <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com> wrote:

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