Paris Las Vegas VP Machine Question

[Chris_Homan]

I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.

One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
also potential room upgrade once we get it?

Thanks

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Greg5]

A friend of mine just did Diamond in a Day at the Rio on the 6/9 $5 Jacks or better. She lost $3000.
30,0000 coin in.
Is it really worth it for a $300 comp? IF you are lucky.
She did this over a month ago and has received NO offers from anywhere. So you don't automatically get a host, and a slew of offers just by playing.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chris Homan <auhoman@...> wrote:

I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.

One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
also potential room upgrade once we get it?

Thanks

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[caribou321]

Considering she was playing at least $25 a hand ($5 is where 9/6 at the Rio starts), a $3000 loss is not that unexpected. It is a high variance play as that's about only 1200 hands of VP.

What do you mean by the "$300 comp". There is no automatic comp for making Diamond.

As far as mailed offers, one month is much too soon to expect them. More likely 2-3 months.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@...> wrote:

A friend of mine just did Diamond in a Day at the Rio on the 6/9 $5 Jacks or better. She lost $3000.
30,0000 coin in.
Is it really worth it for a $300 comp? IF you are lucky.
She did this over a month ago and has received NO offers from anywhere. So you don't automatically get a host, and a slew of offers just by playing.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chris Homan <auhoman@> wrote:
>
> I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
> weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
> trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
> the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
> reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
> time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.
>
> One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
> do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
> gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
> Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
> we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
> get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
> average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
> get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
> get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
> also potential room upgrade once we get it?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Chris_Homan]

I think the reference of $300 comp was in that I said I am stay 5 nights @ ~60$ a night or whatever. Maybe you have more knowledge than me on this, but I would assume that CET properties (Paris obv) are willing to do comps on the back end of trips as well as the usual mailing offers. Thus I am assuming that I will end up being able to get things (room/meals/etc) comped off of the room at checkout after getting the DIAD (more so the 3k points and additional play). Also maybe you can attest to this but wouldn't speaking with a host after getting the DIAD be the best method of seeing "what they will be able to do for me during the trip", i.e. room upgrade/comped, meals, tickets or w/e.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caribou321" <caribou321@...> wrote:

Considering she was playing at least $25 a hand ($5 is where 9/6 at the Rio starts), a $3000 loss is not that unexpected. It is a high variance play as that's about only 1200 hands of VP.

What do you mean by the "$300 comp". There is no automatic comp for making Diamond.

As far as mailed offers, one month is much too soon to expect them. More likely 2-3 months.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@> wrote:
>
> A friend of mine just did Diamond in a Day at the Rio on the 6/9 $5 Jacks or better. She lost $3000.
> 30,0000 coin in.
> Is it really worth it for a $300 comp? IF you are lucky.
> She did this over a month ago and has received NO offers from anywhere. So you don't automatically get a host, and a slew of offers just by playing.
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chris Homan <auhoman@> wrote:
> >
> > I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
> > weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
> > trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
> > the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
> > reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
> > time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.
> >
> > One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
> > do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
> > gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
> > Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
> > we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
> > get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
> > average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
> > get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
> > get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
> > also potential room upgrade once we get it?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Jack_Nowakowski]

I would tend to agree that the only comps you could expect are the $300 you would earn in your account. This is the basic comp return on 30,000 coin in. Hosts are not likely to give you anything extra. Also doubt if your rooms would be comped but I have not had any reason to try this.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: caribou321 <caribou321@yahoo.com>
Sender: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:50:47
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-to: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Paris Las Vegas VP Machine Question

Considering she was playing at least $25 a hand ($5 is where 9/6 at the Rio starts), a $3000 loss is not that unexpected. It is a high variance play as that's about only 1200 hands of VP.

What do you mean by the "$300 comp". There is no automatic comp for making Diamond.

As far as mailed offers, one month is much too soon to expect them. More likely 2-3 months.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@...> wrote:

A friend of mine just did Diamond in a Day at the Rio on the 6/9 $5 Jacks or better. She lost $3000.
30,0000 coin in.
Is it really worth it for a $300 comp? IF you are lucky.
She did this over a month ago and has received NO offers from anywhere. So you don't automatically get a host, and a slew of offers just by playing.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chris Homan <auhoman@> wrote:
>
> I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
> weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
> trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
> the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
> reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
> time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.
>
> One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
> do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
> gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
> Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
> we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
> get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
> average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
> get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
> get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
> also potential room upgrade once we get it?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Peter_M]

30,000 *points* is $300, isn't it? So 30K coin-in = 3000 points =
$30 in RCs.

···

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 1:12 PM, <riosgambling@optonline.net> wrote:

I would tend to agree that the only comps you could expect are the
$300 you would earn in your account. This is the basic comp return on
30,000 coin in.

[Greg5]

CORRECT 3000 points from the $30K coin in is ONLY worth $30

I was referring to the "free room" you were going to ask for.

The reason for playing the $5 limit, was the game.
9/6 jacks is the best you can find in Las Vegas Harrah's casinos.
She had "budgeted" $5000 for the play, was even most of the time, till the last 5000 coin in. Then the inevitable losing streak occured.

9/6 Jacks is ONLY available at the $5 limit. Once you move down to $1 or $2 or lower the pay scale moves WAY down.

Then you are faced with playing 7/5 Bonus poker as your best option.
NOT something you want to do for any length of time. You might find a small progressive, but they rarely get very high. Not enough to compensate for the crummy pay table.

Keep the gold card, play a little, but I would nto bother with diamond in a day, unless you want access to the diamond lounges for snacks, during your stay.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Peter M." <midnight1626@...> wrote:

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 1:12 PM, <riosgambling@...> wrote:
> I would tend to agree that the only comps you could expect are the
> $300 you would earn in your account. This is the basic comp return on
> 30,000 coin in.

30,000 *points* is $300, isn't it? So 30K coin-in = 3000 points =
$30 in RCs.

[HTERRY17]

With only 3K points you would be lucky to get a hello from a host at CET properties in LV. You won't get a host for 30K points if all you play is VP. All you're gonna get for 3K points is $30 in comps and a diamond card that you can use as a "line pass" at some restaurants and entry to the diamond lounge for some free peanuts.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "homancg" <auhoman@...> wrote:

I think the reference of $300 comp was in that I said I am stay 5 nights @ ~60$ a night or whatever. Maybe you have more knowledge than me on this, but I would assume that CET properties (Paris obv) are willing to do comps on the back end of trips as well as the usual mailing offers. Thus I am assuming that I will end up being able to get things (room/meals/etc) comped off of the room at checkout after getting the DIAD (more so the 3k points and additional play). Also maybe you can attest to this but wouldn't speaking with a host after getting the DIAD be the best method of seeing "what they will be able to do for me during the trip", i.e. room upgrade/comped, meals, tickets or w/e.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caribou321" <caribou321@> wrote:
>
> Considering she was playing at least $25 a hand ($5 is where 9/6 at the Rio starts), a $3000 loss is not that unexpected. It is a high variance play as that's about only 1200 hands of VP.
>
> What do you mean by the "$300 comp". There is no automatic comp for making Diamond.
>
> As far as mailed offers, one month is much too soon to expect them. More likely 2-3 months.
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@> wrote:
> >
> > A friend of mine just did Diamond in a Day at the Rio on the 6/9 $5 Jacks or better. She lost $3000.
> > 30,0000 coin in.
> > Is it really worth it for a $300 comp? IF you are lucky.
> > She did this over a month ago and has received NO offers from anywhere. So you don't automatically get a host, and a slew of offers just by playing.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chris Homan <auhoman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
> > > weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
> > > trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
> > > the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
> > > reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
> > > time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.
> > >
> > > One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
> > > do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
> > > gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
> > > Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
> > > we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
> > > get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
> > > average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
> > > get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
> > > get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
> > > also potential room upgrade once we get it?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

[Jack_Nowakowski]

Sorry. $30 is right. Wish it were $300.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: "Peter M." <midnight1626@gmail.com>
Sender: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 13:19:49
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-to: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Paris Las Vegas VP Machine Question

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 1:12 PM, <riosgambling@optonline.net> wrote:

I would tend to agree that the only comps you could expect are the
$300 you would earn in your account. This is the basic comp return on
30,000 coin in.

30,000 *points* is $300, isn't it? So 30K coin-in = 3000 points =
$30 in RCs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Kathleen_Stockdale]

This is why I shop around to get DIAD. Horseshoe Southern Indiana (Louisville)
has diamond multiplier days, so I am hoping that it will be retroactive and the
$30 will turn into $210 (7x multiplier 2 days in May). They have lots of $1 9/6
JOB. Expected loss $138 ($30,000 coin in times .46%) comp value (reward credits)
$210. Already have comped rooms from a previous visit, and should get comped a
nice fattening Paula Dean buffet.
Hopefully the math works out for that trip.

···

________________________________
From: "riosgambling@optonline.net" <riosgambling@optonline.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, May 19, 2011 3:48:44 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Paris Las Vegas VP Machine Question

Sorry. $30 is right. Wish it were $300.
--

30,000 *points* is $300, isn't it? So 30K coin-in = 3000 points =
$30 in RCs.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[David_Silvus]

I hit DIAD at the Rio about 4 years ago or so. They took care of me. My room was already gratis (my buddy got it), but in addition to my RC they offered me free room upgrades, food, booze, tickets to shows, etc. and fell all over themselves to get me back out there as soon as possible (including airfare offers). I had a host call me the day after I did DIAD and she was very eager to help me with everything.

To be fair, I earned it on table games (primarily craps), which I firmly believe they value over VP play, while taking care of the boys, which I firmly believe gets you more than if you don't.

The system has changed since then, so things may be different now. That said, they were most appreciative of me on that trip.

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: riosgambling@optonline.net
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:12:35 +0000
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Paris Las Vegas VP Machine Question

I would tend to agree that the only comps you could expect are the $300 you would earn in your account. This is the basic comp return on 30,000 coin in. Hosts are not likely to give you anything extra. Also doubt if your rooms would be comped but I have not had any reason to try this.

-----Original Message-----
From: caribou321 <caribou321@yahoo.com>
Sender: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 19:50:47
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-to: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Paris Las Vegas VP Machine Question

Considering she was playing at least $25 a hand ($5 is where 9/6 at the Rio starts), a $3000 loss is not that unexpected. It is a high variance play as that's about only 1200 hands of VP.

What do you mean by the "$300 comp". There is no automatic comp for making Diamond.

As far as mailed offers, one month is much too soon to expect them. More likely 2-3 months.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@...> wrote:

A friend of mine just did Diamond in a Day at the Rio on the 6/9 $5 Jacks or better. She lost $3000.
30,0000 coin in.
Is it really worth it for a $300 comp? IF you are lucky.
She did this over a month ago and has received NO offers from anywhere. So you don't automatically get a host, and a slew of offers just by playing.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chris Homan <auhoman@> wrote:
>
> I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
> weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
> trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
> the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
> reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
> time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.
>
> One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
> do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
> gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
> Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
> we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
> get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
> average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
> get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
> get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
> also potential room upgrade once we get it?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Pat1]

The best way to get a room upgrade, in my experience, is to 1) get a guy at check-in and ask if there are any upgrades available while fingering a $20 , maybe a $50 would be better, if he says yes, give him the dough, if not put it back in your pocket. I did DIAD at Caesars 6 years ago, I did not get a host and nothing extra was comped (my room was already free). It is generally pretty easy to get free rooms but much harder tonged other things comped with just 3 to 4 thousand points. My last few trips to LV, I have not seen anything with a decent payable under $5. I'm not Diamond this year because it isn't worth the losses I would endure to get it. They really don't seem to care anymore about VP players

Pat McCauley

···

On May 19, 2011, at 4:45 PM, "tvgambler" <tvgambler@comcast.net> wrote:

With only 3K points you would be lucky to get a hello from a host at CET properties in LV. You won't get a host for 30K points if all you play is VP. All you're gonna get for 3K points is $30 in comps and a diamond card that you can use as a "line pass" at some restaurants and entry to the diamond lounge for some free peanuts.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "homancg" <auhoman@...> wrote:
>
> I think the reference of $300 comp was in that I said I am stay 5 nights @ ~60$ a night or whatever. Maybe you have more knowledge than me on this, but I would assume that CET properties (Paris obv) are willing to do comps on the back end of trips as well as the usual mailing offers. Thus I am assuming that I will end up being able to get things (room/meals/etc) comped off of the room at checkout after getting the DIAD (more so the 3k points and additional play). Also maybe you can attest to this but wouldn't speaking with a host after getting the DIAD be the best method of seeing "what they will be able to do for me during the trip", i.e. room upgrade/comped, meals, tickets or w/e.
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caribou321" <caribou321@> wrote:
> >
> > Considering she was playing at least $25 a hand ($5 is where 9/6 at the Rio starts), a $3000 loss is not that unexpected. It is a high variance play as that's about only 1200 hands of VP.
> >
> > What do you mean by the "$300 comp". There is no automatic comp for making Diamond.
> >
> > As far as mailed offers, one month is much too soon to expect them. More likely 2-3 months.
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > A friend of mine just did Diamond in a Day at the Rio on the 6/9 $5 Jacks or better. She lost $3000.
> > > 30,0000 coin in.
> > > Is it really worth it for a $300 comp? IF you are lucky.
> > > She did this over a month ago and has received NO offers from anywhere. So you don't automatically get a host, and a slew of offers just by playing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chris Homan <auhoman@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
> > > > weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
> > > > trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
> > > > the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
> > > > reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
> > > > time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.
> > > >
> > > > One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
> > > > do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
> > > > gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
> > > > Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
> > > > we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
> > > > get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
> > > > average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
> > > > get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
> > > > get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
> > > > also potential room upgrade once we get it?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[caribou321]

Considering she was playing at least $25 a hand ($5 is where 9/6 at the Rio starts), a $3000 loss is not that unexpected. It is a high variance play as that's about only 1200 hands of VP.

What do you mean by the "$300 comp". There is no automatic comp for making Diamond.

As far as mailed offers, one month is much too soon to expect them. More likely 2-3 months.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "the7thwarrior" <Judy@...> wrote:

A friend of mine just did Diamond in a Day at the Rio on the 6/9 $5 Jacks or better. She lost $3000.
30,0000 coin in.
Is it really worth it for a $300 comp? IF you are lucky.
She did this over a month ago and has received NO offers from anywhere. So you don't automatically get a host, and a slew of offers just by playing.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Chris Homan <auhoman@> wrote:
>
> I will be doing this June 18th or so going to be out there for almost 2
> weeks mainly to play in WSOP, but going to try and do this first part of the
> trip so I can take advantage of the perks. I've played around with some of
> the simulators seems like on a $1 machine you can on average get DIAD pretty
> reliably with $1000 and on average lose in the $500ish range. ~15% of the
> time you hit a royal and make 2k or so.
>
> One question I do have is my buddy and I are going to be going out there to
> do this, we have booked a room @ paris for 5 nights or so under our standard
> gold card reduced rates etc. Does anyone have experience with getting
> Diamond during the stay and the comps we should expect? Our thinking is that
> we can charge stuff to the room while we are out there as well and hopefully
> get a decent bit of it comped on the back end. I think we are getting like a
> average rate of 60$/night, which we are hoping will get fully comped once we
> get diamond etc. How exactly should we go about do this, obviously we will
> get a host once we get diamond? maybe that is the best way to do all of it,
> also potential room upgrade once we get it?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>