We will be coming to Vegas in December. Does the Palms still have
some full-pay or are they changing as fast as all of the other casinos?
Palms VP
I was there recently and did not notice any inventory changes.
Everything in the VP Free database appears accurate :
http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Palm.htm
hockeystl
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lvegasldy777" <lvegasldy777@y...>
wrote:
We will be coming to Vegas in December. Does the Palms still have
some full-pay or are they changing as fast as all of the other
casinos?
For the 5 or 6,000th time:
THERE IS NO GENERAL DEGRADATION OF VP AT THE 25c LEVEL. Much playable and positive VP exists at the 50c and $ level, even higher. The fact that Coast did their foolishness combined with negative posters like Kevin has given the wrong impression that everyone is doing it.
Competition prevents it. Some plays go away from time to time due to machine retirement. Others because they are just too generous to the public. We will rarely, if ever, see FPDW or KBJW above the 25c level (although a few machines are still around). Higher limit players will find enough additional benefits to make NSUD, 9/7/5 DB, 9/6 JOB and 8/5 Bonus quite playable, plus progressives.
Just like the local grocery store or Best Buy running loss leaders each week, advantage VP serves the same purpose for well run casinos.
B
···
At 11:09 AM 11/23/2003, you wrote:
We will be coming to Vegas in December. Does the Palms still have
some full-pay or are they changing as fast as all of the other casinos?
Sorry to disagree, Bill, but most of what you say just ain't so. Good
VP continues to disappear all over town.
Scot
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Coleman [mailto:vpho…@…net]
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 5:19 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Palms VP
For the 5 or 6,000th time:
THERE IS NO GENERAL DEGRADATION OF VP AT THE 25c LEVEL. Much playable
and
positive VP exists at the 50c and $ level, even higher. The fact that
Coast
did their foolishness combined with negative posters like Kevin has
given
the wrong impression that everyone is doing it.
Competition prevents it. Some plays go away from time to time due to
machine retirement. Others because they are just too generous to the
public. We will rarely, if ever, see FPDW or KBJW above the 25c level
(although a few machines are still around). Higher limit players will
find
enough additional benefits to make NSUD, 9/7/5 DB, 9/6 JOB and 8/5 Bonus
quite playable, plus progressives.
Just like the local grocery store or Best Buy running loss leaders each
week, advantage VP serves the same purpose for well run casinos.
B
At 11:09 AM 11/23/2003, you wrote:
We will be coming to Vegas in December. Does the Palms still have
some full-pay or are they changing as fast as all of the other casinos?
vpFREE Links:
http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Bill,
I don't want to sound negative, but I have to respectfully disagree.
Besides the hundreds of FPVP that's been yanked from Coast (and most
recently Barbary), Flamingo has pulled their PE bartops, LVH has cut
their CB by 40% and it has been reported by a very reputable source
that the IP will be pulling their AA soon.
Ballys/Paris downgraded their higher limit 9/6 in September and have
not reinstated the paytables. MGM has also pulled/downgraded their
moderate plays. Bellagio has caught on recently and cut mailers to
FPVP players who show a net win.
Yes, there are limited FPVP plays at Stations (agree, they are
obviously 'loss leaders' as you state). However, it's been stated
that discretionary comps have been eliminated for FPVP players. And
yes, Montelago opened with excellent paytables. However, these plays
are dramatically outweighed by what's been pulled/downgraded. And
finally, the Palms does stand tall as the home of FPVP.
There will still be playable opportunities w/ CB + Comps + Promos +
Bounceback. But when you're starting from a base of 9/7 DB or the
like, the edge isn't near as strong as it's been in the past.
I just can't see how you cannot at least say that there is a downward
trend in FPVP in town.
hockeystl
For the 5 or 6,000th time:
THERE IS NO GENERAL DEGRADATION OF VP AT THE 25c LEVEL. Much
playable and
positive VP exists at the 50c and $ level, even higher. The fact
that Coast
did their foolishness combined with negative posters like Kevin has
given
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby@c...> wrote:
the wrong impression that everyone is doing it.
Yes, there are fewer VP plays than in the past. We now have to work harder to find them, maybe go a little further than we used to or like to travel. Not so many choices. Not so convenient.
People with a limited bankroll are hurt most - because they can't find the big edges they used to. If you have a large enough bankroll - financial and psychological - you can handle a smaller edge. Some of you with small bankrolls better get out your mothballed VP software and start practicing to learn better strategy. I am sure a lot of you just "kinda know" the strategy - and with a small edge, you may not be playing at 100% at all. Have you tested yourself recently? When we had big edges, making mistakes could be more acceptable - now they may be killing us.
People who depended on VP for necessary income are having to work MUCH harder - and some may be forced to get a "real" job. People who were just "playing the beat-the-casino game" may be quite willing to cut down on their play, especially locals, some of whom, like us, were getting tired of running all over town anyway.
Bounce-back is still very strong for locals. Getting rooms for the out-of-towners is getting a little harder, but not impossible IF one is flexible.
As I have "preached" for many years - you have to remain flexible. Don't marry a casino. Be willing to scramble. The casinos do NOT owe us a living, only a good time. If you want to play "the game," you can't be too finicky about which casinos you "like" or which ones are "below you."
It does NO good to cry over the lost past. Dry your tears and stop complaining - and get your a.. in gear to work harder - or find another hobby/job. Life has never "owed" anyone anything.
And some people might find it pleasant and fulfilling to reduce the number of hours they play VP - and get out and start a life, maybe even doing some volunteer work to make this world a better place to live in. Wow- what a concept!!!!!
···
____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can now
be ordered, autographed, at
http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Very well said
···
----- Original Message -----
From: Jean Scott
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Palms VP
Yes, there are fewer VP plays than in the past. We now have to work harder to find them, maybe go a little further than we used to or like to travel. Not so many choices. Not so convenient.
People with a limited bankroll are hurt most - because they can't find the big edges they used to. If you have a large enough bankroll - financial and psychological - you can handle a smaller edge. Some of you with small bankrolls better get out your mothballed VP software and start practicing to learn better strategy. I am sure a lot of you just "kinda know" the strategy - and with a small edge, you may not be playing at 100% at all. Have you tested yourself recently? When we had big edges, making mistakes could be more acceptable - now they may be killing us.
People who depended on VP for necessary income are having to work MUCH harder - and some may be forced to get a "real" job. People who were just "playing the beat-the-casino game" may be quite willing to cut down on their play, especially locals, some of whom, like us, were getting tired of running all over town anyway.
Bounce-back is still very strong for locals. Getting rooms for the out-of-towners is getting a little harder, but not impossible IF one is flexible.
As I have "preached" for many years - you have to remain flexible. Don't marry a casino. Be willing to scramble. The casinos do NOT owe us a living, only a good time. If you want to play "the game," you can't be too finicky about which casinos you "like" or which ones are "below you."
It does NO good to cry over the lost past. Dry your tears and stop complaining - and get your a.. in gear to work harder - or find another hobby/job. Life has never "owed" anyone anything.
And some people might find it pleasant and fulfilling to reduce the number of hours they play VP - and get out and start a life, maybe even doing some volunteer work to make this world a better place to live in. Wow- what a concept!!!!!
____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can now
be ordered, autographed, at
http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release Date: 11/10/2003
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Back in September, I gambled during one day at Bellagio, a long
session of $1 JoB FP, and two shorter sessions of $1 9-7 DB. All
three sessions showed a profit. This is the only time I ever gambled
at Bellagio. I'm not bragging, I was lucky, but here's my point:
About 2 weeks ago, I got an offer from Bellagio for three nights in
a "deluxe" room, I assume this is the basic 3-night package, no free
food. I'm just saying that I disagree that Bellagio has cut mailers
to FPVP players who show a net win.
Gary
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hockeystl" <vegasstl@c...> wrote:
Bellagio has caught on recently and cut mailers to
FPVP players who show a net win.
This is standard.
Bellagio will send a room offer to new members who give several K in
coinin on his/her first visit. An attempt to 'set the hook', if you
will.
Subsequent room offers will be based on the action of the second
trip, where the coinin requirement for additional room offers will be
much higher.
I was referring to 'regulars' at the Bellagio who have shown a VP
win. I should have clarified.
hockeystl
Back in September, I gambled during one day at Bellagio, a long
session of $1 JoB FP, and two shorter sessions of $1 9-7 DB. All
three sessions showed a profit. This is the only time I ever
gambled
at Bellagio. I'm not bragging, I was lucky, but here's my point:
About 2 weeks ago, I got an offer from Bellagio for three nights in
a "deluxe" room, I assume this is the basic 3-night package, no
free
food. I'm just saying that I disagree that Bellagio has cut
mailers
···
to FPVP players who show a net win.
Gary
Agree, word is that big regular players with a net win get dropped
from marketing offers. This is also true for new players who
don't "measure up" to offers after several stays.
Bellagio, like Venetian, loves to send out very generous offers to
new players to get them set on the property: free nights, free play,
parties, slot tournaments ... you name it ... even for play under
$10K per day. This might continue for over a year if you don't visit
too often. That's about how long it takes marketing to finally
conclude you are not a $50K per day player.
New (to Bellagio) visitors ... this is a great chance for you to
experience Bellagio and even come away a winner (free play amounts
are ... were? ... very generous). Food is usually not included in
average introductory offers, but your play should put the buffet
(very good) within comp reach (new members get one free buffet for
two as well). So by all means, join, play your normal game on 9/6 JB
(its best schedule) and take 'em up on offer or two while they last.
Incidentally guys, most women luv this place, so add FITR to ER <g>
2-W
This is standard.
Bellagio will send a room offer to new members who give several K
in
coinin on his/her first visit. An attempt to 'set the hook', if you
will.Subsequent room offers will be based on the action of the second
trip, where the coinin requirement for additional room offers will
be
much higher.
I was referring to 'regulars' at the Bellagio who have shown a VP
win. I should have clarified.hockeystl
> Back in September, I gambled during one day at Bellagio, a long
> session of $1 JoB FP, and two shorter sessions of $1 9-7 DB. All
> three sessions showed a profit. This is the only time I ever
gambled
> at Bellagio. I'm not bragging, I was lucky, but here's my point:
>
> About 2 weeks ago, I got an offer from Bellagio for three nights
in
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hockeystl" <vegasstl@c...> wrote:
> a "deluxe" room, I assume this is the basic 3-night package, no
free
> food. I'm just saying that I disagree that Bellagio has cut
mailers
> to FPVP players who show a net win.
>
> Gary
We have stayed and played at the B for several years and only paid for
a room the first time we stayed there. We are mostly quarter VP
players with some short 50 cent sessions. Since they became part of
the MGM-Mirage properties, most of our offers came from MGM and TI.
We figured they had classed us as MGM level players and not up to
Bellagio standards, however, still wanted our money in the corporate
coffers. Our last trip to LV was to take advantage of offers from TI,
MGM (and the V) but nothing from Bellagio.
However, a couple days ago we got an offer from the B for 3 nights and
$100 freeplay, good until a couple days before Christmas.
When I made reservations for the above mentioned trip to MGM and TI
(MGM first) the TI reservation clerk said, "Oh, I see you are also
staying at MGM." At first she thought I was double booking but then
noticed the dates were different. So looks like all the MGM-Mirage
properties use the same data base for rooms as well as slot clubs.
During that trip, food comps were almost impossible. We had to "pay
for the rooms" before any other comps would be considered -- $9,000
per day. This held true for the B even though we played enough for
food comps and was not staying there. (Later, when we were staying at
the Venetian [non-MGM property] we hit up the B for a food comp and
they came through).
Rick
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "2-WILD" <lucky4K@C...> wrote:
Agree, word is that big regular players with a net win get dropped
from marketing offers. This is also true for new players who
don't "measure up" to offers after several stays.Bellagio, like Venetian, loves to send out very generous offers to
new players to get them set on the property: free nights, free play,
parties, slot tournaments ... you name it ... even for play under
$10K per day. This might continue for over a year if you don't visit
too often. That's about how long it takes marketing to finally
conclude you are not a $50K per day player.New (to Bellagio) visitors ... this is a great chance for you to
experience Bellagio and even come away a winner (free play amounts
are ... were? ... very generous). Food is usually not included in
average introductory offers, but your play should put the buffet
(very good) within comp reach (new members get one free buffet for
two as well). So by all means, join, play your normal game on 9/6 JB
(its best schedule) and take 'em up on offer or two while they last.Incidentally guys, most women luv this place, so add FITR to ER <g>
2-W
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "hockeystl" <vegasstl@c...> wrote:
> This is standard.
>
> Bellagio will send a room offer to new members who give several K
in
> coinin on his/her first visit. An attempt to 'set the hook', if you
> will.
>
> Subsequent room offers will be based on the action of the second
> trip, where the coinin requirement for additional room offers will
be
> much higher.
>
> I was referring to 'regulars' at the Bellagio who have shown a VP
> win. I should have clarified.
>
> hockeystl
>
> > Back in September, I gambled during one day at Bellagio, a long
> > session of $1 JoB FP, and two shorter sessions of $1 9-7 DB. All
> > three sessions showed a profit. This is the only time I ever
> gambled
> > at Bellagio. I'm not bragging, I was lucky, but here's my point:
> >
> > About 2 weeks ago, I got an offer from Bellagio for three nights
in
> > a "deluxe" room, I assume this is the basic 3-night package, no
> free
> > food. I'm just saying that I disagree that Bellagio has cut
> mailers
> > to FPVP players who show a net win.
> >
> > Gary
Thanks for the replies to my comment about Bellagio. I was new to the
B, played some $1 VP, and I got the typical offer for a buffet for
two, 3-nights in a room, and $100 FreePlay. Yes, this is a hook to
get me back, but it's the best offer I'll get, and FP JoB isn't too bad.
The current offer is good into December, but I can't use it at this
time. Will I get another offer, or is this my only chance? Should I
call them up and ask to remain on the mailing list for a while, and
I'll surely use a future offer? Or should I just relax and wait for
the next mailer?
Hoping for lots o' FITR,
Gary
You should continue to receive several more offers. I think we
received at least 4 before we finally booked.
BTW, if you (or your wife) have a BDay coming up, they often send out
BDay freeplay (assuming you both have cards with some action on
them). A nice way to 'double dip'.
hockeystl
Thanks for the replies to my comment about Bellagio. I was new to
the
B, played some $1 VP, and I got the typical offer for a buffet for
two, 3-nights in a room, and $100 FreePlay. Yes, this is a hook to
get me back, but it's the best offer I'll get, and FP JoB isn't too
bad.
The current offer is good into December, but I can't use it at this
time. Will I get another offer, or is this my only chance? Should
I
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <gary@g...> wrote:
call them up and ask to remain on the mailing list for a while, and
I'll surely use a future offer? Or should I just relax and wait for
the next mailer?Hoping for lots o' FITR,
Gary
Sit back and wait ... you should get more.
Check the expiration date on your free play voucher AND see if you
need to be a guest. When the program first started the voucher had a
lengthy expiration, so it was possible to pool them for a future
stay. And there was no guest requirement ... in fact, you could even
stop by and get the free play added to your card for use up to one
year later!
I think these loopholes have been closed by now ... but does bring up
the point to always carefully read offers ... not only for what they
might take away in the fine print, but for what they might add in
loopholes.
2-W
Thanks for the replies to my comment about Bellagio. I was new to
the
B, played some $1 VP, and I got the typical offer for a buffet for
two, 3-nights in a room, and $100 FreePlay. Yes, this is a hook to
get me back, but it's the best offer I'll get, and FP JoB isn't too
bad.
The current offer is good into December, but I can't use it at this
time. Will I get another offer, or is this my only chance? Should
I
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <gary@g...> wrote:
call them up and ask to remain on the mailing list for a while, and
I'll surely use a future offer? Or should I just relax and wait for
the next mailer?Hoping for lots o' FITR,
Gary