vpFREE2 Forums

Palms Promotions - they need help

I love the Palms and play there the most. But it does need help in the
Promotions Department - like a new marketing person perhaps?

I have attended a couple of tournaments there, most recently the baccaret
tournament, which apparently was put together by hosts.
All the tournaments seemed somewhat poorly organized. For unknown reasons,
instead of setting up registration in the ballroom, you register at the
center bar. This means that the line forms in a weird circular pattern, with
people who arrive early sometimes not being first in line and others cutting
into line. Every other slot tournament I have been at has registration in a
separate ballroom to keep things orderly. Also as usual, the hosts arrived
late and seemed somewhat disorganized. All this increases the time spent in
line and causes players to become annoyed.

The reason to have a promotion is to bring players to your casino, and then
you want them to play at much as possible, not have them waiting around in
lines or for endless drawings.

Case in point at the baccaret tournament, they had drawings every half hour
and 3 sessions (if you were lucky enough to advance), so by the time you were
through going to sessions and drawings it was hard to find time to play in
the casino or eat your dinner. They actually gave away 60 prizes in the
drawing (12 prizes given out 5 times). There were only 72 people in the
tournament, max, so they might as well have just given out prizes to each
person as they registered, and thus everyone would have been happy, and then
they would have gone off to play. As it was, some people left before the
drawings, or didn't realize that there were more than one, so missed out on
their gift (it was a chip valued at $8, $25, or $100).

Obviously keeping people around for drawings isn't a good idea if they occur
so frequently that the customers don't spend time gambling. This is bad for
the casino and annoying to customers.

Then there was the slot tournament held this week. They apparently sent out
invitations to everyone who had a slot card, and this meant that you had to
wait anywhere from 1/2 hour to over an hour in line. Again, people are
standing around in lines, instead of sitting at machines. Further, with a
couple thousand people competing for only 6 places in the final tournament
(plus 1 wild card and 1 $75 drawing), you had a lot of unhappy people who
wasted a bunch of time and didn't have much of a chance of winning.

I don't see how a promotion like this helps the Palms. It isn't good
publicity, and doesn't make you want to come to future promotions like this.

A better idea is when they just offer you a prize for swiping your card
(instead of a tournament). You are forced to come into the casino to get the
prize, and the swipe only takes a couple of minutes, and then you probably
will gamble. The Palms has had promotions like this in the past.

If the Palms wants to do a slot tournament, why don't they do a "real" one -
like other casinos do? You invite only your top players -- say your Hot
Shot/Big Shot, or maybe a few others who
are playing a lot. Then you hold it in a ballroom, and you move your special
slot machines in the ballroom. This means that you aren't taking up valuable
floor space on the main floor with machines that don't bring in money. You
provide a nice spread of snacks during the tournament, and an actual Awards
Banquet where you present prizes (with a band). Harrahs excells at holding
regular slot tournaments of this type - several a month which are aimed at
different play levels with different prize amounts. At Harrahs, for example,
they may invite 320 people and give prizes to 150 of them. With a nice bit
of food and a good chance at a prize, people enjoy coming to these, and keep
coming back. They are well organized and have a lengthy timeslot for
registration (2-3-4 hours) so there is never a long line to register.

Since Palms has the ability to electronically determine contest winners, the
obvious way to hold prize drawings is to require people to be playing, and
then announce the winners over the loudspeaker system and on monitors. This
keeps people playing, yet gives an incentive for a special prize. Similarly
the swipe promotions and the electronic drawings have all worked well for the
Palms.

But the slot tournament with an hour-long wait is a disaster.

Further, the long line and crowd for the drawing blocked the access to slot
machines, preventing some people from playing. Further some people stood in
line 1/2 hour to 1 hour at the end of the day, and then were denied entry
when 7pm was reached and they had not yet reached the front of the line.
This led to arguments and ill fillings (I witnessed several people
complaining bitterly).

I can see that the Palms wants locals to keep coming in - and it is working
since I find myself showing up a couple of times a week for free play or
other promotions, but promotions which are poorly organized or require
standing in long lines, are just plain dumb.

If they want to do table gametournaments, they should organize them better.
I went
to a tournament at Bally's and it was organized to a science, with careful
rules, and with dealers who took care to make sure the rules were enforced.
They also provided a nice bunch of snacks and a Awards Banquet. At the Palms
the dealers were sloppy, allowing people to make bets out of turn and
sometimes not moving the "puck" which showed which person had the next turn
in betting. Also most casinos who have tournaments give major prizes, such
as $30,000 first place, with lots of lower prizes. At Palms's baccaret
tournament the top prize was $3000, with only 6 total prizes. Similarly the
Palms would benefit if it held a really good slot tournament for higher
rollers, instead of the rinky-dink tournaments like the one this week which
had way too many people, too few prizes, and worst of all -- a really long
wait.

But I really think the Palms needs to hire a marketing person full-time or
consultant to get its promotions on track, especially to entice higher
demonination players.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Linda, This sounds like a job tailor made for you. You should use some of your explanations to this board and go pitch the honchos at Palms on letting you help get the contests profitable. kat

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: misscraps@aol.com
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:40 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Palms Promotions - they need help

  I love the Palms and play there the most. But it does need help in the
  Promotions Department - like a new marketing person perhaps?

  I have attended a couple of tournaments there, most recently the baccaret
  tournament, which apparently was put together by hosts.
  All the tournaments seemed somewhat poorly organized. For unknown reasons,
  instead of setting up registration in the ballroom, you register at the
  center bar. This means that the line forms in a weird circular pattern, with
  people who arrive early sometimes not being first in line and others cutting
  into line. Every other slot tournament I have been at has registration in a
  separate ballroom to keep things orderly. Also as usual, the hosts arrived
  late and seemed somewhat disorganized. All this increases the time spent in
  line and causes players to become annoyed.

  The reason to have a promotion is to bring players to your casino, and then
  you want them to play at much as possible, not have them waiting around in
  lines or for endless drawings.

  Case in point at the baccaret tournament, they had drawings every half hour
  and 3 sessions (if you were lucky enough to advance), so by the time you were
  through going to sessions and drawings it was hard to find time to play in
  the casino or eat your dinner. They actually gave away 60 prizes in the
  drawing (12 prizes given out 5 times). There were only 72 people in the
  tournament, max, so they might as well have just given out prizes to each
  person as they registered, and thus everyone would have been happy, and then
  they would have gone off to play. As it was, some people left before the
  drawings, or didn't realize that there were more than one, so missed out on
  their gift (it was a chip valued at $8, $25, or $100).

  Obviously keeping people around for drawings isn't a good idea if they occur
  so frequently that the customers don't spend time gambling. This is bad for
  the casino and annoying to customers.

  Then there was the slot tournament held this week. They apparently sent out
  invitations to everyone who had a slot card, and this meant that you had to
  wait anywhere from 1/2 hour to over an hour in line. Again, people are
  standing around in lines, instead of sitting at machines. Further, with a
  couple thousand people competing for only 6 places in the final tournament
  (plus 1 wild card and 1 $75 drawing), you had a lot of unhappy people who
  wasted a bunch of time and didn't have much of a chance of winning.

  I don't see how a promotion like this helps the Palms. It isn't good
  publicity, and doesn't make you want to come to future promotions like this.

  A better idea is when they just offer you a prize for swiping your card
  (instead of a tournament). You are forced to come into the casino to get the
  prize, and the swipe only takes a couple of minutes, and then you probably
  will gamble. The Palms has had promotions like this in the past.

  If the Palms wants to do a slot tournament, why don't they do a "real" one -
  like other casinos do? You invite only your top players -- say your Hot
  Shot/Big Shot, or maybe a few others who
  are playing a lot. Then you hold it in a ballroom, and you move your special
  slot machines in the ballroom. This means that you aren't taking up valuable
  floor space on the main floor with machines that don't bring in money. You
  provide a nice spread of snacks during the tournament, and an actual Awards
  Banquet where you present prizes (with a band). Harrahs excells at holding
  regular slot tournaments of this type - several a month which are aimed at
  different play levels with different prize amounts. At Harrahs, for example,
  they may invite 320 people and give prizes to 150 of them. With a nice bit
  of food and a good chance at a prize, people enjoy coming to these, and keep
  coming back. They are well organized and have a lengthy timeslot for
  registration (2-3-4 hours) so there is never a long line to register.

  Since Palms has the ability to electronically determine contest winners, the
  obvious way to hold prize drawings is to require people to be playing, and
  then announce the winners over the loudspeaker system and on monitors. This
  keeps people playing, yet gives an incentive for a special prize. Similarly
  the swipe promotions and the electronic drawings have all worked well for the
  Palms.

  But the slot tournament with an hour-long wait is a disaster.

  Further, the long line and crowd for the drawing blocked the access to slot
  machines, preventing some people from playing. Further some people stood in
  line 1/2 hour to 1 hour at the end of the day, and then were denied entry
  when 7pm was reached and they had not yet reached the front of the line.
  This led to arguments and ill fillings (I witnessed several people
  complaining bitterly).

  I can see that the Palms wants locals to keep coming in - and it is working
  since I find myself showing up a couple of times a week for free play or
  other promotions, but promotions which are poorly organized or require
  standing in long lines, are just plain dumb.

  If they want to do table gametournaments, they should organize them better.
  I went
  to a tournament at Bally's and it was organized to a science, with careful
  rules, and with dealers who took care to make sure the rules were enforced.
  They also provided a nice bunch of snacks and a Awards Banquet. At the Palms
  the dealers were sloppy, allowing people to make bets out of turn and
  sometimes not moving the "puck" which showed which person had the next turn
  in betting. Also most casinos who have tournaments give major prizes, such
  as $30,000 first place, with lots of lower prizes. At Palms's baccaret
  tournament the top prize was $3000, with only 6 total prizes. Similarly the
  Palms would benefit if it held a really good slot tournament for higher
  rollers, instead of the rinky-dink tournaments like the one this week which
  had way too many people, too few prizes, and worst of all -- a really long
  wait.

  But I really think the Palms needs to hire a marketing person full-time or
  consultant to get its promotions on track, especially to entice higher
  demonination players.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  vpFREE Home Page:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE

  vpFREE Links:
  http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.html

  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Then there was the slot tournament held this week. They apparently sent

out

invitations to everyone who had a slot card, and this meant that you had

to wait

anywhere from 1/2 hour to over an hour in line.

This tournament is just not worth the bother. Given the large attendance,
it seems this promotion is highly successful. I agree
that the long wait keeps people from playing, but it looks like there are a
lot of people who would not even be in the casino if not for the tournament.
In a case like this, having people waiting in line is not so bad for the
casino.

Again, people are standing around in lines, instead of sitting at

machines.

Further, with a couple thousand people competing for only 6 places in the

final

tournament (plus 1 wild card and 1 $75 drawing), you had a lot of unhappy

people

who wasted a bunch of time and didn't have much of a chance of winning.

Right, so don't play.

I don't see how a promotion like this helps the Palms. It isn't good
publicity, and doesn't make you want to come to future promotions like

this.

You are giving far too much credit to the general public. The masses seem
to love these things.

Harrahs excells at holding regular slot tournaments of this type -
several a month which are aimed at different play levels with different
prize amounts. At Harrahs, for example, they may invite 320 people
and give prizes to 150 of them. With a nice bit of food and a good
chance at a prize, people enjoy coming to these, and keep coming back.

I agree. This is one thing Harrah's does very well with. Too bad
for us that marketing and service are about all that Harrah's has
to offer.

They are well organized and have a lengthy timeslot for
registration (2-3-4 hours) so there is never a long line to register.

Further, the long line and crowd for the drawing blocked the access to

slot

machines, preventing some people from playing. Further some people stood

in

line 1/2 hour to 1 hour at the end of the day, and then were denied entry
when 7pm was reached and they had not yet reached the front of the line.

There is no excuse for this. The Palms should 'close' the promotion by
identifying the last person to be allowed to play. That should be done
at the official closing time. If they really want to be done by 7PM,
they should have an official closing time of 6 or 6:30

This led to arguments and ill fillings (I witnessed several people
complaining bitterly).

And this is exactly why this is such a terrible mistake. A promotion
that angers players is worse than doing nothing.

QZ

When in town I do enjoy playing there. However, I received the weakest invite ever for my birthday last month. I was offered a Sun-Thurs rate of $109. But, they did offer $15 in free play. The regular midweek rate was $109. b As Shirl can attest, we did win a progressive royal on FPDW in November. On that day, my wife and I played about 6 hours each. I guess they don't like out-of-towners.
misscraps@aol.com wrote:I love the Palms and play there the most. But it does need help in the
Promotions Department - like a new marketing person perhaps?

I have attended a couple of tournaments there, most recently the baccaret
tournament, which apparently was put together by hosts.
All the tournaments seemed somewhat poorly organized. For unknown reasons,
instead of setting up registration in the ballroom, you register at the
center bar. This means that the line forms in a weird circular pattern, with
people who arrive early sometimes not being first in line and others cutting
into line. Every other slot tournament I have been at has registration in a
separate ballroom to keep things orderly. Also as usual, the hosts arrived
late and seemed somewhat disorganized. All this increases the time spent in
line and causes players to become annoyed.

The reason to have a promotion is to bring players to your casino, and then
you want them to play at much as possible, not have them waiting around in
lines or for endless drawings.

Case in point at the baccaret tournament, they had drawings every half hour
and 3 sessions (if you were lucky enough to advance), so by the time you were
through going to sessions and drawings it was hard to find time to play in
the casino or eat your dinner. They actually gave away 60 prizes in the
drawing (12 prizes given out 5 times). There were only 72 people in the
tournament, max, so they might as well have just given out prizes to each
person as they registered, and thus everyone would have been happy, and then
they would have gone off to play. As it was, some people left before the
drawings, or didn't realize that there were more than one, so missed out on
their gift (it was a chip valued at $8, $25, or $100).

Obviously keeping people around for drawings isn't a good idea if they occur
so frequently that the customers don't spend time gambling. This is bad for
the casino and annoying to customers.

Then there was the slot tournament held this week. They apparently sent out
invitations to everyone who had a slot card, and this meant that you had to
wait anywhere from 1/2 hour to over an hour in line. Again, people are
standing around in lines, instead of sitting at machines. Further, with a
couple thousand people competing for only 6 places in the final tournament
(plus 1 wild card and 1 $75 drawing), you had a lot of unhappy people who
wasted a bunch of time and didn't have much of a chance of winning.

I don't see how a promotion like this helps the Palms. It isn't good
publicity, and doesn't make you want to come to future promotions like this.

A better idea is when they just offer you a prize for swiping your card
(instead of a tournament). You are forced to come into the casino to get the
prize, and the swipe only takes a couple of minutes, and then you probably
will gamble. The Palms has had promotions like this in the past.

If the Palms wants to do a slot tournament, why don't they do a "real" one -
like other casinos do? You invite only your top players -- say your Hot
Shot/Big Shot, or maybe a few others who
are playing a lot. Then you hold it in a ballroom, and you move your special
slot machines in the ballroom. This means that you aren't taking up valuable
floor space on the main floor with machines that don't bring in money. You
provide a nice spread of snacks during the tournament, and an actual Awards
Banquet where you present prizes (with a band). Harrahs excells at holding
regular slot tournaments of this type - several a month which are aimed at
different play levels with different prize amounts. At Harrahs, for example,
they may invite 320 people and give prizes to 150 of them. With a nice bit
of food and a good chance at a prize, people enjoy coming to these, and keep
coming back. They are well organized and have a lengthy timeslot for
registration (2-3-4 hours) so there is never a long line to register.

Since Palms has the ability to electronically determine contest winners, the
obvious way to hold prize drawings is to require people to be playing, and
then announce the winners over the loudspeaker system and on monitors. This
keeps people playing, yet gives an incentive for a special prize. Similarly
the swipe promotions and the electronic drawings have all worked well for the
Palms.

But the slot tournament with an hour-long wait is a disaster.

Further, the long line and crowd for the drawing blocked the access to slot
machines, preventing some people from playing. Further some people stood in
line 1/2 hour to 1 hour at the end of the day, and then were denied entry
when 7pm was reached and they had not yet reached the front of the line.
This led to arguments and ill fillings (I witnessed several people
complaining bitterly).

I can see that the Palms wants locals to keep coming in - and it is working
since I find myself showing up a couple of times a week for free play or
other promotions, but promotions which are poorly organized or require
standing in long lines, are just plain dumb.

If they want to do table gametournaments, they should organize them better.
I went
to a tournament at Bally's and it was organized to a science, with careful
rules, and with dealers who took care to make sure the rules were enforced.
They also provided a nice bunch of snacks and a Awards Banquet. At the Palms
the dealers were sloppy, allowing people to make bets out of turn and
sometimes not moving the "puck" which showed which person had the next turn
in betting. Also most casinos who have tournaments give major prizes, such
as $30,000 first place, with lots of lower prizes. At Palms's baccaret
tournament the top prize was $3000, with only 6 total prizes. Similarly the
Palms would benefit if it held a really good slot tournament for higher
rollers, instead of the rinky-dink tournaments like the one this week which
had way too many people, too few prizes, and worst of all -- a really long
wait.

But I really think the Palms needs to hire a marketing person full-time or
consultant to get its promotions on track, especially to entice higher
demonination players.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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···

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

weakest invite ever for my birthday last month. >

Like Les, Misscraps, and many others, I also love the Palms. It's
hands down my favorite place to play. And it's not just their
terrific inventory. The layout, ambience, choice of colors,
flexibility of their point system -- in my opinion, the other casinos
compete for second place.

But as Les and Misscraps indicate, the Palms is not quite perfect
yet. I'm an AC player and was there this weekend -- not staying at
the hotel of course. Despite nearly a quarter million points earned
over probably 7-8 visits, I only get puny room offers. No free
nights at all. Since I get room offers elsewhere, it's not a huge
deal but I'd prefer to stay where I play the most. Generally I
dislike dealing with hosts -- either send me an offer or forget it --
but this time I guess I'll need to give in and inquire. I know their
hotel is small by Strip standards, but c'mon throw me a bone.

The other complaint, of course, is the lack of cashback. This
weekend I saw signs and take-ones touting "Free Slot Play," which I
guess is Palms' version of cashback. I noted the requirements that
points be earned in the high-limit area and that VP earns at half the
rate of slots. But since I had just lost probably $1,500-$2,000
dollars in the high limit area that day I figured I'd redeem
my "rewards" as consolation. However, after checking my account the
attendant informed me that I needed to earn 40,000 points in the high
limit area during the period since November 22, 2002 just to
have "free slot play" begin to kick in. Nowhere on the handout are
such restrictions stated, unless its covered by "Management reserves
all rights."

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Les Silber <lesfromli@y...> wrote:

When in town I do enjoy playing there. However, I received the