vpFREE2 Forums

Palms, etc. The ghastly damage a skilled VP player can do!!!!

Ok, here's your perfect VP player, who nefariously assaults the
innocent casino as it waits, quivering for the dastardly VP pro to
pillage it:

FPDW (.25): 800 hands/hr, ERROR-FREE, $1000 coin-in x .07 = $7/hr,
plus $2.50 in earned comps (no X point days or mailed offers for
THIS scumbag) Total: $9.50 an hour

FPDB ($1) 800 hands/hr, ERROR-FREE, $4000 coin-in x .015 =$6/hr,
plus $10 in earned comps Total: $16/hr

This is presuming a bankroll large enough to avoid a significant
risk of ruin, at least $5000 for quarter play and $20000 for dollars.

So, the fulltime effort of a video poker "pro", backed by a bankroll
of twenty thousand dollars (which is NOT accruing interest or being
invested in any other way) generates about $100/day with optimal
(perfect) play.

There are a couple of dozen machines in the Palms where this can be
done.

Let's contrast this with a yummy $25 minimum 6-5 blackjack table. A
player using perfect basic strategy will lose about 2% on this game.
60 hands/hr x 7 players (full table) x $25/hand = $9000/hr. So AT
WORST (everybody bets the table minimum and everyone plays
perfectly) the casino makes $180/hr dealing this game. (and to make
sure that no one DOES play perfectly, we play bad rap music at 95
decibels directly over players' heads).

So let's see: One blackjack table earning the LEAST amount of money
it is possible to make pays for TWELVE of those slimy VP experts
pillaging and looting the machines.

Gee, d'ya think ol' George M should worry about us?

FPDW (.25): 800 hands/hr, ERROR-FREE, $1000 coin-in x .07 = $7/hr,
plus $2.50 in earned comps (no X point days or mailed offers for
THIS scumbag) Total: $9.50 an hour

I was told these players get $5 every redemption period. Actually, the
FPDW is on a progressive, and some player bang two machines at once.

FPDB ($1) 800 hands/hr, ERROR-FREE, $4000 coin-in x .015 =$6/hr,
plus $10 in earned comps Total: $16/hr

Here, top mail is $40 every redemption period. I am guessing that to
maintain that level you'd need $25K coin in per session.

So, the fulltime effort of a video poker "pro", backed by a bankroll
of twenty thousand dollars (which is NOT accruing interest or being
invested in any other way) generates about $100/day with optimal
(perfect) play.

An oversimplification. My personal benchmark for most games is that
the game be worth at least $60/hr playing $1 5-line, 10c 100-line or
$2 single line. Larger denoms are usually $100-$120/hr or more. There
are many different ways to attain the benchmark EV desired.

Palms really isn't a good example, neither is GVR-they show their
smarts by putting meters on all the bonus deuces games (compare the $5
DBDW at Hard Rock, the bonus deuces are approaching 4000 coins, and
it's still nowhere near 100%). Since there are very few strategy
changes, and the bonus deuces are 1.1% of the paytable, even at a
98.9% reset, it takes a long time for the progressive to reach 100%.

If you had to play $1 10/7, the best spot in town for that is probably
Charlie's Decatur, on the progressive. There are lots of $40/hr spots
for VP players in town, but you have to know how to play several
different games well and not be a specialist. I play very little in
Vegas, and a good part of that is recreational.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "paladin415x" <paladin415x@y...>
wrote:

> FPDW (.25): 800 hands/hr, ERROR-FREE, $1000 coin-in x .07 =

$7/hr,

> plus $2.50 in earned comps (no X point days or mailed offers for
> THIS scumbag) Total: $9.50 an hour

I was told these players get $5 every redemption period. Actually,

the

FPDW is on a progressive, and some player bang two machines at

once.

According to a slot tech at the Palms, one-twentieth of one percent
of coin-in (0.05%) is added to the meter. I suppose there is a
slight overlay if you sit down and the meter is already at $1070 pr
something like that. But I rearely see it top $1100, and when it
does, you won't get a seat.
I've run speed and accuracy trials, and I've concluded that there is
no advantage to playing two machines at once; an 800 hand/hr player
can push it up to about 950, assuming the buttons aren't sticky,
etc., but the error rate rises dramatically (as you might expect).
I wouldn't expect even the best players to eke out more than an
additional $1/hr or so out of this situation. This simply reiterates
my basic point, which is that these players are no conceivable
threat to the casino.

> FPDB ($1) 800 hands/hr, ERROR-FREE, $4000 coin-in x .015 =$6/hr,
> plus $10 in earned comps Total: $16/hr

Here, top mail is $40 every redemption period. I am guessing that

to

maintain that level you'd need $25K coin in per session.

My own experience has shown that if you stick to $1 10/7 DB
(and/or .25 FPDW), you don't get the top mailer no matter what. Six
months ago I logged $75,000 coin-in, but all on $1 10/7---and I got
the $15 level mailer. This pushed me up to a theoretical return of
about $22 per hour, but in reality you never can drop by for all
seven (sometimes only a day or two long) redemption periods.

I have reached and stayed at the $40 level for some time now by
playing 1/2 $1 NSUD and 1/2 $1 DB. Again, I doubt that I or anyone
like myself could be considered a threat to the casino.

> So, the fulltime effort of a video poker "pro", backed by a

bankroll of twenty thousand dollars (which is NOT accruing interest
or being invested in any other way) generates about $100/day with
optimal (perfect) play.

An oversimplification. My personal benchmark for most games is that
the game be worth at least $60/hr playing $1 5-line, 10c 100-line

or $2 single line. Larger denoms are usually $100-$120/hr or more.
There are many different ways to attain the benchmark EV desired.

Oversimplification? What factor am I failing to take into account?
Simply because my theoretical example doesn't attain your benchmark
EV doesn't mean that your benchmark EV is attainable. I'd like to
know just where I could play $1 five-line (or $2 single-line) with
an inherently positive EV game. I agree that it may be possible to
play at this EV FOR AN HOUR OR TWO, until you reach a maximum return
rate of bounceback or something like that. But a play where you can
walk in, make $60/hr, day after day, for as long as you like, and
walk out anytime, and furthermore remain undetected? I'd have to see
this one to believe it.

Palms really isn't a good example, neither is GVR-they show their
smarts by putting meters on all the bonus deuces games (compare

the $5

DBDW at Hard Rock, the bonus deuces are approaching 4000 coins, and
it's still nowhere near 100%). Since there are very few strategy
changes, and the bonus deuces are 1.1% of the paytable, even at a
98.9% reset, it takes a long time for the progressive to reach

100%.

If you are talking about the good ol' strategy of exploiting
progressives, it can't be done in this town, as there are literally
hundreds of hangers-on who do nothing but patrol those casinos that
have potentially positive progressives, and when they find one, they
whip out the ol' cell phone and call the team in. By the time YOU
find it, it's too late.

Beside, progressive-plucking isn't a strategy where you can DEPEND
on there being a positive play on any given day.

If you had to play $1 10/7, the best spot in town for that is

probably Charlie's Decatur, on the progressive. There are lots of
$40/hr spots for VP players in town, but you have to know how to
play several different games well and not be a specialist. I play
very little in Vegas, and a good part of that is recreational.

With AC's "a billion dollars earns one point" coin-in policy for
fullpay machines, you can't earn enough bounceback (or points in the
first place) to make this a worthwhile play. I mean, good
God…0.03% cashback (or worse)??? Yes, it's positive, but you'd
struggle to reach $20/hr.

It's one thing to state that somewhere, a play exists (which can't
be verified, to the extent that one would have to visit every casino
in town to prove that it DOESN'T), and a very different thing to say
exactly where, when, and how such play can be found. If you don't
like to post sensitive info, then please e-mail me privately.
Otherwise I'll just have to conclude that you're blowing smoke.