I received a private email from a friend saying the Palms 50c FPDW
have been removed. The other games and denominations are still there -
25c FPDW and 25c and 50c 10/7 DB and 10/6 DDB.
vpFREE Administrator
Palms 50c FPDW MIA
The $.50 FPDW lasted two weeks...guess we shouldn't be surprised that they were pulled.
Don the Dentist
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vpFREE Administrator <vpfree3355@...> wrote:
I received a private email from a friend saying the Palms 50c FPDW
have been removed. The other games and denominations are still there -
25c FPDW and 25c and 50c 10/7 DB and 10/6 DDB.vpFREE Administrator
My surprise is that they put it in in the first place, if they are going to end up taking it out right away. What are they thinking? This is a serious question, I wonder what "they" or "someone" is thinking. Is it just a mistake? How about a few years ago when Orleans put in 17-10 LDW for 25-cents/50-cents on two banks of machines? Was it intentional for some unknown reason? Was it just someone's mistake? Does someone in charge not really know what he is doing? I'm not trying to bad-mouth anyone, I'd just like to understand the motivation.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Don the Dentist" <dds6@...> wrote:
The $.50 FPDW lasted two weeks...guess we shouldn't be surprised that they were pulled.
Palms is in financial trouble. Obviously they brought back the quarter deuces because they noticed a dropoff in business when they took them out. As for the half dollar deuces, that was probably a reasonable exercise given the poor financial situation, presumably they either ran bad in favor of the players or the caliber of players was better than the casino expected or a Chinese or Russian team moved in. What the Palms should do is put in better progressives, like 9-6 double double bonus with 1% meter or 8-5 double double bonus with 3% meter. Those would bring in business and cost the casino nothing, they may even make money on them due to player mistakes. On days they want to promote they can add to the jackpots and on days they don't want to promote they can take money from the jackpots, I'm pretty sure gaming allows that now as long as the money eventually goes into a jackpot.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Don the Dentist" <dds6@> wrote:
>
> The $.50 FPDW lasted two weeks...guess we shouldn't be surprised that they were pulled.
>My surprise is that they put it in in the first place, if they are going to end up taking it out right away. What are they thinking? This is a serious question, I wonder what "they" or "someone" is thinking. Is it just a mistake? How about a few years ago when Orleans put in 17-10 LDW for 25-cents/50-cents on two banks of machines? Was it intentional for some unknown reason? Was it just someone's mistake? Does someone in charge not really know what he is doing? I'm not trying to bad-mouth anyone, I'd just like to understand the motivation.
I cannot tell how much of your post is tongue-in-cheek, if any. Is there actually history of casinos taking AWAY from jackpots? I mean, when they don't have to, other than when a bank of machines is being taken off the floor? Something tells me you know what you're talking about.
But yes, more progressives is what all casinos need. I agree! To me it seems like a slam dunk. Progressives with fast-enough meters, ones that increase business but do not hurt the casino's bottom line. Actually that would increase their bottom line. What am I missing? What are THEY missing? Isn't this concept taught when they attend Slot Manager School?
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
Palms is in financial trouble. Obviously they brought back the quarter deuces because they noticed a dropoff in business when they took them out. As for the half dollar deuces, that was probably a reasonable exercise given the poor financial situation, presumably they either ran bad in favor of the players or the caliber of players was better than the casino expected or a Chinese or Russian team moved in. What the Palms should do is put in better progressives, like 9-6 double double bonus with 1% meter or 8-5 double double bonus with 3% meter. Those would bring in business and cost the casino nothing, they may even make money on them due to player mistakes. On days they want to promote they can add to the jackpots and on days they don't want to promote they can take money from the jackpots, I'm pretty sure gaming allows that now as long as the money eventually goes into a jackpot.
How do you figure a progressive doesn't effect the bottom line for the
casino? They have to pay the ever-increasing jackpot when it is hit. A
meter that increases at 1% of coin-in reduces the casino's hold by 1%.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:54 AM, Bob Bartop <bobbartop@yahoo.com> wrote:
**
But yes, more progressives is what all casinos need. I agree! To me it
seems like a slam dunk. Progressives with fast-enough meters, ones that
increase business but do not hurt the casino's bottom line. Actually that
would increase their bottom line. What am I missing? What are THEY missing?
Isn't this concept taught when they attend Slot Manager School?
Good question, and I'll be happy to explain it.
Machine #A: 9-6 Double Bonus for quarters (97.81% against perfect play) with a 1% meter. That still leaves 1.2% for the casino. Occasionally the jackpot goes to $2500, maybe even $3000. At $3000, there is a line of people trying to get a seat. The casino gets 1.2% of A LOT of action. Which is actually much more because of player mistakes. Also, when smart players make adjustments in their play in light of the higher jackpot, the casino makes more off of that because these are "mistakes" against the base game.
Machine #B: Same game, 9-6 Double Bonus for quarters, but no progressive. (or one that progresses so slow that it never goes over $1015). Hardly anyone plays this, but casino keeps a larger percent, a larger percent of nothing.
Scenario #A = Casino keeps small percent of a lot of action and makes big profit.
Scenario #B = Casino keeps larger percent of no action, and makes squat. (but suits are happy)
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Darrell G <darrellg@...> wrote:
How do you figure a progressive doesn't effect the bottom line for the
casino? They have to pay the ever-increasing jackpot when it is hit. A
meter that increases at 1% of coin-in reduces the casino's hold by 1%.
Occam's razor...
Gross incompetence.
QZ
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Don the Dentist" <dds6@> wrote:
>
> The $.50 FPDW lasted two weeks...guess we shouldn't be surprised that they were pulled.
>My surprise is that they put it in in the first place, if they are going to end up taking it out right away. What are they thinking? This is a serious question, I wonder what "they" or "someone" is thinking. Is it just a mistake? How about a few years ago when Orleans put in 17-10 LDW for 25-cents/50-cents on two banks of machines? Was it intentional for some unknown reason? Was it just someone's mistake? Does someone in charge not really know what he is doing? I'm not trying to bad-mouth anyone, I'd just like to understand the motivation.
Also, the comparison here is to FPDW. If everybody plays FPDW perfectly, the casino loses money. But even if everybody plays 9-6 double double bonus with 1% progressive perfectly, the casino still makes money. Gamblers will jump at either situation because in the first they have the edge and in the second they are overvaluing a jackpot that they have to compete for, as in an auction. In the first case the casino loses money, in the second they make money. Seems like the game theoretical solution should be obvious here. Sure there will be some gamblers with control who can wait for a high jackpot number, just like in the lottery, but in order for them to get a high number other gamblers must have pumped it up, so that's revenue neutral for the casino. The casino actually wants to see high jackpots because that means they haven't payed out the jackpot for some time and the higher levels stimulate more player action, just like the lottery.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Darrell G <darrellg@> wrote:
>> How do you figure a progressive doesn't effect the bottom line for the
> casino? They have to pay the ever-increasing jackpot when it is hit. A
> meter that increases at 1% of coin-in reduces the casino's hold by 1%.
>
>Good question, and I'll be happy to explain it.
Machine #A: 9-6 Double Bonus for quarters (97.81% against perfect play) with a 1% meter. That still leaves 1.2% for the casino. Occasionally the jackpot goes to $2500, maybe even $3000. At $3000, there is a line of people trying to get a seat. The casino gets 1.2% of A LOT of action. Which is actually much more because of player mistakes. Also, when smart players make adjustments in their play in light of the higher jackpot, the casino makes more off of that because these are "mistakes" against the base game.
Machine #B: Same game, 9-6 Double Bonus for quarters, but no progressive. (or one that progresses so slow that it never goes over $1015). Hardly anyone plays this, but casino keeps a larger percent, a larger percent of nothing.
Scenario #A = Casino keeps small percent of a lot of action and makes big profit.
Scenario #B = Casino keeps larger percent of no action, and makes squat. (but suits are happy)
Check this link out. I know I've mentioned this before. Look specifically at the game on the bottom called Megajacks.
http://www.jackpotgraphs.com/video-poker-jackpots.html
Megajacks is a 9-6 JoB progressive for quarters. It resets, I think, at $350, maybe $300. It was really low this morning after being hit last night at $1234. Amazingly, someone still pumps it up from such a small number because tomorrow it will be up past a grand I guarantee you. It gets high all the time. It is frequently over $2000 and I have seen it hit $5000 a few times. Holy crap! I don't know what the meter is but it must be high. And it is a very very popular game, obviously, where it has been hit many many times. (even without U.S.players since 2006)
Compare it with some of the other games being monitored at that link, like Boss Media's progressives. They offer a 7-5 JoB. And their jackpots take FOREVER to grow, because no one plays them. They are so friggin stupid. I have always enjoyed Boss Media software (before 2006) and they are trustworthy, but clueless. You've got Playtech offering a close game like Megajacks that gets played a lot, and Boss Media that deals a crappy game that gets played almost zero. A large percent of nothing is still nothing! And in B&M casinos, all over Vegas, I see the same thing, crappy progressives with slow meters, and one little old lady sitting at a bank of twelve machines. What are these casino suits THINKING?!!!
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
Also, the comparison here is to FPDW. If everybody plays FPDW perfectly, the casino loses money. But even if everybody plays 9-6 double double bonus with 1% progressive perfectly, the casino still makes money. Gamblers will jump at either situation because in the first they have the edge and in the second they are overvaluing a jackpot that they have to compete for, as in an auction. In the first case the casino loses money, in the second they make money. Seems like the game theoretical solution should be obvious here. Sure there will be some gamblers with control who can wait for a high jackpot number, just like in the lottery, but in order for them to get a high number other gamblers must have pumped it up, so that's revenue neutral for the casino. The casino actually wants to see high jackpots because that means they haven't payed out the jackpot for some time and the higher levels stimulate more player action, just like the lottery.