vpFREE2 Forums

OREGON State-run VP games

#1

My brother gave me the pay tables for Ten different games. These
machines have independent RNGs. The max payoff is $600 per hand. You
can play from one to eight quarters per deal. There are enticements
to play more than 4 quarters, but they don't seem to offset the
flattened payoffs for ROYALs ($600 lid on a $2 wager is 300-1).

Yes, they are all serious "DOGS". I'm hoping the Spirit Mtn Casino
does a little better.

Anyhow, I tossed out some silly games and the Joker games and came up
with 4 "reasonable" games that we are going to try this next weekend.
I would love to cycle them thru WinPoker, but I don't have it.
(Assist from any of you nice people?) Does WinPoker spit out a
revised strategy table? How about the other programs? (Tom Skis or
Frugal for example).

I compared the tables to similar 97% Payback games:

···

*******************************************************

"Jacks or Better" -OREGON 1-1-3-5-7-10-25-100-600
     compare to
8/5 JoB (97%) 1-2-3-4-5-8-25-50-1000

The big Hurt on 1-1 for 2Pr might be partially offset by a change in
strategy to favor str8 , flush and SF draws over (Low or Any) Pairs.
My guesstimated Payback with modified strategy: 91%

********************************************************
"Draw" -OREGON (Aces or Better) (AA:)1-2-3-5-7-10-25-100-600
     compare to
8/5 JoB (97%) 1-2-3-4-5-8-25-50-1000

The big Hurt is paying 1-1 for pair of Aces only. As in Jacks or
better above, this might be partially offset by a change in strategy
to favor str8 , flush and SF draws over Any Pairs.
My guesstimated Payback with modified strategy: 90%

********************************************************
"Four Leaf Poker"-OREGON 1-1-2-4-6-8-50-50/100/200-800
                                  (+$600 for ordered RF)
        compare to
DB Faces (96.5%) 1-1-3-4-6-9-50-50/80/160-1000

Drain will be 2-1 for Trips. Extra juice for High card Quads. Extra
coins increase SF from 50-1 up to 175-1, but RF lid is $600. I don't
have a Faces strategy card, but I can intuit it from DB. Minor
strategy tweeks: guesstimated Payback: 92%

******************************************************

"Deuces Wild" -OREGON 1-2-3-3-3-10-17-30-120-600

      compare to
97% DW: 1-2-2-3-4-13-17-25-200-1000

BIG big Hurt on 3-1 payoff for 4K. Hurt on low quad 2's, SF and
natch RF is NOT offset by increase in Flush and Wild Royal pays.
My idea is to promote 4 flush and even 3 RF over trips (w or w/o a
deuce!) optimistic payback guess: 89%

********************************************************

Take your shots if this thread catches your interest.
Thanks in advance.

~Mark Time
     Seattle

#2

Mark P. wrote:

Anyhow, I tossed out some silly games and the Joker games and came up
with 4 "reasonable" games that we are going to try this next weekend.

Mark, I want to be diplomatic in my reply. Frankly, I was hoping your
post was slightly tongue-in-cheek. I don't suspect that it is.

So, a little basic advice:

VP in this country doesn't get much worse. If you're going for a
little nearby fun, stick to one coin play ... nickles if possible. If
the drinks are free, indulge yourself to the max (keeping a designated
driver in tow).

Give some thought to those WA match-card bonus machines we discussed a
short while ago. There's a reasonable chance that the return is no
higher, but at least in that case you don't know for sure and you pick
up a little local color while you're at it.

Finally, at these returns where you're theoretically giving up about
$100 for every $1K of coin-in, you quickly burn airfare to LV for two.
Save yourself and get away a couple of times a year to someplace
where play really is a thrill!

- Harry

#3

Harry -
I understand you 100%. Even if I'm lucky enough to modify my
strategy correctly to creep up any of these games to say, 92%
PayBack, I agree that these are losing propositions in the long
term. I think it's a no-brainer that I play these for fun and that I
stick to one coin per deal. If I or we hit a couple of big hands, I
will enjoy the excursion. I'll budget a few hundred bucks. I know
flights are 1 1/2 hours and less than $200 R/T to Reno from here in
Seattle, not much more to Vegas, and someday I'll easily take the
jaunt for long weekends & mini-vacations. Heck, comped food and room
is a big lure too (I'm lucky enough to have jumped through THAT hoop
already).

But until then, I'm still cutting my teeth and this will be a cheap
lesson about pay-table vs. "perfect play" relationships. In a sense
I prefer Singer's assertion that you can get lucky at any time on any
vp machine. I do not want to be a robot playing against another
robot. Long term play is not what inspires me. I understand the math
which spits out proper strategy tables. I also don't think anyone
here does the math for modified stategy cards.

My goal with this post was not to answer: If I play these low-paying
machines for 10,000 hours, will I get rich? (Ans: no way!) The real
question is: what quick modifications to the strategies will take
advantage of the increases and decreases in the pay tables for these
OREGON games. Somebody has gone there, maybe not in this group.

If software will spit this out, I'll need to get the software. Or, if
someone here likes to run the numbers, maybe I can get a quick and
dirty reply from the software results.

Anyhow, overall I think vp will spread around the country, and locals
CAN profit from the hornet's nest of pay tables that will infiltrate
the vp community: If they are nimble in adjusting to the games
offered. The answer is not always a simple, "Go to Nevada". That's
not "Nimble". But I betcha someone will hit a Royal 3 blocks from his
or her home in Anytown, USA, be able to go home and treat the family
to a fancy dinner, new clothes, new toys, or even a college
education. Or, he or she will take the winnings as a stake and
become addicted to the crappy pay-table vp game and spend all their
money on it. Lots of arguments on both sides of the equation.

All I wanted was a strategy tweek - like the post which gave a few
changes of FPDW strategy to adjust for NSUD.

Thanks for your concern tho': I won't blow too much of my bankroll.
I'm writing this off to "scouting".

~MARK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter <harry.porter@v...>"
<harry.porter@v...> wrote:

Mark, I want to be diplomatic in my reply. Frankly, I was hoping

your

post was slightly tongue-in-cheek. I don't suspect that it is.

So, a little basic advice:

VP in this country doesn't get much worse. If you're going for a
little nearby fun, stick to one coin play ... nickles if possible.
Give some thought to those WA match-card bonus machines we
discussed .... There's a reasonable chance that the return is no
higher, but at least in that case you don't know for sure and you
pick up a little local color while you're at it.

Finally, at these returns where you're theoretically giving up about
$100 for every $1K of coin-in, you quickly burn airfare to LV for

two.

···

Save yourself and get away a couple of times a year to someplace
where play really is a thrill!

- Harry

#4

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mark P. <mark_my_words_again@y...>"
<mark_my_words_again@y...> wrote:

...(snip long discussion of Oregon VP games)

These games sound just like the Louisiana state run video poker games
that are found in bars, resturants, and truck stops around
Louisiana. The bar owner contracts with the state to place these
games in his establishment, and shares the profit from the machines
with the state of Louisiana. They are BIG moneymakers. Similar pay
tables to what you describe with games in the 90% return range, 1 - 8
coin (quarter) play, except with a Royal limit of $500 in Louisiana.
What always amazes me is that people will sit and play these monsters
for hours at a time, when there is often a real casino, with
reasonable (sometimes pretty good) VP just a short drive away.
Sometimes literally across the street. They just don't know any
better.

Here's something to think about. Suppose you have someone who plays
one of these 90% return games 10 hours per week, for 50 weeks per
year, at the 8 quarter level. Their expected yearly loss is:
10x50x(600 hands per hour)x($2 per hand)x.10 = $60,000. OUCH!
No wonder folks in the media talk about people losing their homes and
everything else from playing these machines.

If you don't think the common person is ill-informed about gambling,
consider the following story. I promise this is a true story. I
used to have a newspaper article about it. This incident happened a
couple of years ago in the New Orleans area. At one of the local
bars that had one of these Louisiana VP machines, the owner and
workers would watch the machine to see if it went a long time without
hitting a royal. When the machine had gone long enough (in their
minds) without hitting a royal, they would actually lock up the bar,
and the owner and the employees would play non-stop on their VP
machine, thinking that it must be DUE to hit. As incredibly stupid
as this sounds, the story gets even better. The regular bar patrons,
who found out that this was going on, started to complain to the
local politicians that the bar owner was keeping them away from
the "overdue" machine, so that he and his employees could collect
the "overdue" royal. The bar customers felt that they should also
have a shot at the "overdue" royal. And UNBELIEVABLY, there was
actually some discussion to initiate legislation to prevent bar
owners from hogging an "overdue" VP machine for themselves in this
manner. Finally, a representative with the manufacturer of the VP
machines was consulted, and he was able to explain the concept
of "random" to the politicians.

Best thing is to stay as far away from these state run machines as
possible. Spend a small amount of money and get WINPOKER or Frugal
VP. Then practice on your computer as much as you want. It won't
cost you a thing. Then you'll be ready to play when you get a chance
to visit somewhere that has decent VP.

EE

#5

<<<
Finally, a representative with the manufacturer of the VP
machines was consulted, and he was able to explain the concept
of "random" to the politicians.

I wonder how many weeks that took?

  QZ