I do not know if the law has changed but it used to limit paybacks to under
93%. There is a special version of 10s or better designed to do just that.
[Original Message]
From: mikejeisenberg <mikevegas@cox.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 7/13/2005 11:49:58 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Oregon CasinosDoes anyone know if the Spirt Mountain Casino, 90 minutes from Portland
Oregon, has full pay VP?vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
Howard Stern wrote:
I do not know if the law has changed but it used to limit paybacks to
under 93%. There is a special version of 10s or better designed to do
just that.
I have the impression that Oregon tribal "vp" is on VLT's (similar to
Washington State), where the outcome is not random and play strategy
has no impact on the outcome.
- H.
With the UTMOST respect to Howard and Harry, WRONG! and WRONG!
Spirit Mountain IS a tribal casino. They do not have Full Pay VP, but NOR do they have
VLTs. No match card.
I played there in Jan of '03 and seems to me they had a few 8/5 JoBs on the GameKing
uprights near the exit door nearest the high limit area. Nothing else really playable,
but it is a modern casino with mostly or all TiTo machines. The games are as RNG-
ish as any other tribal casino in other (non-VLT) states.
And I THINK long ago I actually found the Compact that this tribe has with the state
of Oregon, after some tricky web-surfing. I doubt there were upper limits for
paytables. I THINK Howard is thinking of the Oregon State Lottery game limits: 93%
sounds about right.
North of Grande Rhonde on highway 18 is the Spruce Goose. Some enterprising souls
built a building around it and a little museum. $5 or $6 to walk around and in
Howard Hughes's dream.
~MARK
in Seattle
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...> wrote:
Howard Stern wrote:
> I do not know if the law has changed but it used to limit paybacks to
> under 93%. There is a special version of 10s or better designed to do
> just that.I have the impression that Oregon tribal "vp" is on VLT's (similar to
Washington State), where the outcome is not random and play strategy
has no impact on the outcome.- H.
Mark wrote:
With the UTMOST respect to Howard and Harry, WRONG! and WRONG!
Spirit Mountain IS a tribal casino. They do not have Full Pay VP,
but NOR do they have VLTs. No match card.
I'm inclined to agree from a practical standpoint. I'll note that a
review of the state compact with Grande Ronde (operator of Spirit
Mountain), dated 1/8/97 (with no apparent amendment since):
http://tinyurl.com/a78ap
and a more recent and precisely defined compact with Warm
Springs/Cascade Locks, dated 4/6/05:
http://governor.oregon.gov/Gov/pdf/1_42.pdf
http://governor.oregon.gov/Gov/pdf/42_93.pdf
indicates a restriction of the defined permitted Class III machines to
"VLT". However, the VLT definition of contained in the Warm Springs
compact appears to define a machine in which the outcome is determined
strictly according to chance by a microprocessor within the machine.
Obviously this is at odds with how we generally understand a VLT to be
defined, which until now I understood to be no more than a terminal
connected to a central determinant mechanism that dispersed wins
electronically in a manner analogous to pull tabs.
So, in a strict technical sense, I'll stand by my statement that they
only permit VLT's (as defined by the compact). But, in truth, the
definition appears to allow for what we'd term a "fair" vp machine.
------------
Excerpts from the Warm Springs compact:
ARTICLE V - AUTHORIZED CLASS III GAMING
B. Authorized games.
1. Subject to, and in compliance with the provisions of this Compact,
the Tribe may engage in the following types of Class III Gaming:
a. VLT games of chance which meet the specifications set forth in
Exhibit I,
b. keno,
c. blackjack and any side-bet variations of blackjack that do not
alter the course of play of the game,
d. Spanish 21,
e. craps,
f. roulette,
g. pai-gow poker,
h. Caribbean stud poker,
i. three-card poker,
j. let- it-ride,
k. mini-baccarat,
l. big 6 wheel,
m. off-track pari- mutuel wagering on animal racing
ARTICLE III DEFINITIONS
VV. "Video Lottery Terminal" or "VLT" means any electronic or other
device, contrivance or machine where the game outcome decision- making
portion of the overall assembly is microprocessor controlled wherein
the ticket or game outcome is displayed on a video display screen,
electronically controlled physical reels, or other electronic or
electro-mechanical display mechanism and that is available for
consumer play at the device upon payment of any consideration, with
winners determined by the application of the element of chance and the
amount won determined by the possible prizes displayed on the device
and which awards game credits. Such device also displays both win
amounts and current credits available for play to the player.
------------
I'll note that "Exhibit I: Minimum Internal Controls" (that's "I" as
in ice) is referenced in the Table of Contents, but not physically
included in the pdf.
Furthermore, there appears to be no restriction on machine payouts, as
is the case in the Washington State tribal compacts.
You'll forgive me if I'd still be a little leery of Oregon tribal
casinos -- better safe than sorry, you know? However, if they operate
"brand name" equipment (e.g. IGT) and I had a STRONG itch to play, I
guess you'd find me at one if I didn't have anything better to do 
- Harry