vpFREE2 Forums

Operation Venetian; toke distribution

rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@yahoo.com> wrote (snip):

Tipping is supposed to be a reward for good service, and it's unfair
that dealers get far more tokes simply because they handle more
transactions than, say, a waitress, or for that matter a maid or
casino porter. They all have equal responsibility in providing good
customer service, and should therefore share equally in the benefits.

Fairness isn't socialism, Vic.

I disagree about it being unfair. Dealers don't get more tokes simply because they handle more transactions. They get them for doing a good job for the players. That's accuracy, technique, and diplomacy, and much more.

If waitresses and maids need any training, it's generally done on the job, and even if it's minimum wage they are paid something for their time.

To become a dealer making more money, you need to pay $300 or more to go to school to learn to do the job, spending up to five weeks with no income (unless you're working a shift that makes it possible to go to school at the same time).

If you play blackjack or poker, you may think that all one has to do is learn to shuffle and pitch cards, and he'll be a dealer. I have been training blackjack and poker dealers at Casino Gaming School for more than ten years, and the toughest students are the ones who come in with that attitude. We've had some that spent one week in school, learned to shuffle and pitch well, and got a dealing job. Two weeks later they're back to finish the course because they got fired.

Fairness, in this case, is compensation in relation to the training and skill required for the job. Many of those maids and waitresses could become dealers if they really wanted to.

If you want to talk about unfair, consider the doorman at a big resort taking in over $200,000 per year just for opening the door and calling a cab.

Dan

···

--
Dan Paymar, author of "Video Poker - Optimum Play"
Editor and publisher of "Video Poker Times" newsletter
Visit my web site at www.OptimumPlay.com

"Chance favors the prepared mind"
- Louis Pasteur

I'm sure the waiter's adn valet parker's get good tips and make pretty good money. I feel sorry for the maid's and restroom attendant's. They have to clean up a lot of other people's nasty mess, and many people dont bother to leave them a tip.

Ned C.
The Wild Joker

···

Dan Paymar <Dan@OptimumPlay.com> wrote:

I disagree about it being unfair. Dealers don't get more tokes simply
because they handle more transactions. They get them for doing a good
job for the players. That's accuracy, technique, and diplomacy, and
much more.

If waitresses and maids need any training, it's generally done on the
job, and even if it's minimum wage they are paid something for their
time.

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The maid's are union. They get paid well for the job they do plus full
benefits. They won concessions during their last strike to have special
teams that do the real messy jobs. There is no reason to be feeling sorry
for them.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: The Wild Joker [mailto:jokerswild1…@…com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 9:36 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Re: Operation Venetian; toke distribution

   I'm sure the waiter's adn valet parker's get good tips and make pretty
good money. I feel sorry for the maid's and restroom attendant's. They have
to clean up a lot of other people's nasty mess, and many people dont bother
to leave them a tip.

Ned C.
The Wild Joker

Dan Paymar <Dan@OptimumPlay.com> wrote:

I disagree about it being unfair. Dealers don't get more tokes simply
because they handle more transactions. They get them for doing a good
job for the players. That's accuracy, technique, and diplomacy, and
much more.

If waitresses and maids need any training, it's generally done on the
job, and even if it's minimum wage they are paid something for their
time.

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Dan Paymar <Dan@O...> wrote:

Fairness, in this case, is compensation in relation to the training
and skill required for the job.

I was a dealer for a year (blackjack, roulette, red dog). Far more
commonly than a customer just giving you a tip (toke), they'll place
a side bet in addition to their own bet. If they win, I get the bet
plus the winnings; if they lose, I get nothing.

Think about it. The only reason anyone takes the job is that the
players, through their tips, are paying most of the dealer's salary.
The casino gets a great deal, attracting dealers with the players'
money, while paying out only minimum wage. But that's not enough.
They're even getting a cut of the money that passes from the players
to the dealers! Most players play so badly that the casino ends up
with at least 5% of the money that was intended as dealers' tips.

I ain't no communist; all's fair in love, war, & capitalism. But I
think the custom of tipping is overdone in Vegas; I think dealers
should be paid by their employer. Without tips, dealers would still
be motivated to provide good service. There's plenty of competition;
if you don't like the dealers in one place, complain & move to the
next place.

Aw, hell, I guess that since we're dealing with lots of gambling
addicts, allowing them to tip & gamble simultaneously must motivate
some of them give more. Still, players making bets with my tip money
was a big pet peeve.

Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htm

rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...> wrote (snip):
Fairness isn't socialism, Vic.

Dan Paymar <Dan@O...> wrote:

Fairness, in this case, is compensation in relation to the training
and skill required for the job.

Fairness, in all cases, is compensation based on the market rate
arising from the supply & demand for the skill in question. That is,
there's no reason for someone to get paid well just because they've
got tremendous skills that required great time, effort, or training.
Imposing such thinking on the market would be disastrous. Rather,
compensation is & must be dependent on the extent to which consumers
value that skill.

Stuart

When I began playing I asked the dealers which way
they preferred my tips, direct or bet along with mine.
Best I can remember the response was 100% for me to
bet the tip along with mine. Guess you never dealt to
me!

···

--- Stuart <sresnick2@comcast.net> wrote:

Dan Paymar <Dan@O...> wrote:
> Fairness, in this case, is compensation in
relation to the training
> and skill required for the job.

I was a dealer for a year (blackjack, roulette, red
dog). Far more
commonly than a customer just giving you a tip
(toke), they'll place
a side bet in addition to their own bet. If they
win, I get the bet
plus the winnings; if they lose, I get nothing.

Think about it. The only reason anyone takes the job
is that the
players, through their tips, are paying most of the
dealer's salary.
The casino gets a great deal, attracting dealers
with the players'
money, while paying out only minimum wage. But
that's not enough.
They're even getting a cut of the money that passes
from the players
to the dealers! Most players play so badly that the
casino ends up
with at least 5% of the money that was intended as
dealers' tips.

I ain't no communist; all's fair in love, war, &
capitalism. But I
think the custom of tipping is overdone in Vegas; I
think dealers
should be paid by their employer. Without tips,
dealers would still
be motivated to provide good service. There's plenty
of competition;
if you don't like the dealers in one place, complain
& move to the
next place.

Aw, hell, I guess that since we're dealing with lots
of gambling
addicts, allowing them to tip & gamble
simultaneously must motivate
some of them give more. Still, players making bets
with my tip money
was a big pet peeve.

Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htm