vpFREE2 Forums

One more for the early comments -- then I've gotta finish the "reports" :)

#1

Hi all --

We didn't blow in from AC until the wee hours -- Caesars' quarter slanttops
under the escalator (that everyone in ACVPP knows about) were paying a
progressive close to $2100. But someone else eventually won it. :frowning:

Thanks to all the people who've mailed me comments outside the group. As
William Shatner once said -- "Here's champagne to my real friends, and real
pain to my sham friends!"

/JJG

What a bunch of self-exalting garbage. I'm not quite as tactful as Harry, but

as I was just at Sam's Town myself I must comment ...

Thank you for your comments, Dick!

Let's analyze your analysis of VP... ZIP. It must be that plays over 101%

(without 6x points) are not good enough? Yeah sure. And which of the non
"upscale" restaurants did you try? Give us the facts not an opinion on
something you clearly did not even visit.

Well, the 24-hour "Cafe" was closed for renovation, so they took over the
Mexican restaurant. We did not eat at the McDonald's in the courtyard, or
S'barro pizza -- because that chain uses so much MSG it gives us instant
headaches. The buffet line had well over a hundred people every time we
looked.

"Analysis of VP"? I recommend the vpFree database -- this is a trip report,
which means it's partly a lifestyle reflection -- not an audit. I'm sorry if
you were hoping for something else.

You mentioned that you were just at ST, so I hope your trip report to the
group will serve as a template for what you'd like to see from other people.

Let's disucss [sic] the rooms. They are nothing like Motel 6, but judging

from your comments you probably would never lower yourself to go there.

Been there, done that. Yawn.

However, you missed pointing out the main problem with the rooms. While

adequate in size the walls are paper thin. This can be a problem if you have
noisy neighbors.

That actually didn't bother us so much.

When we were in Germany, we stayed in a couple modest postwar motels that were
REALLY thin-walled -- nothing so substantial as 1/2" drywall, but more like
shellacked cardboard. In Japan, we've stayed in local housing (i.e., not
built for the Western market) where you have to roll up your futon to have
room to open a suitcase. But in both of those circumstances, although the
construction used cheap materials, the workmanship was of the best possible
order.

In Sams, it was the combination of cheap materials, sloppy construction, and
poor maintenance -- the mismatched or peeling wallpaper seams, the cigarette
odor and rug burns on a "nonsmoking" floor -- that was a constant in-your-face
annoyance.

How about some facts. I really don't care about your opinions since you

obviously think you're better than most people. And you made that abundantly
clear with your comments about Walmart, Motel 6, bowling lanes and movie
theaters. I think your 'evolution' is pitiful.

Dick, I really can't respond to your attitude. Wish I could email you a pack
of Tums.

Speaking of movies, some of us don't partake in pirating copyrighted media.

You sure don't look special in my eyes for bragging about it.

Some people don't have the technical acumen, and some people don't understand
that "found media" on the Net isn't a crime. It's when _you_ share with other
people that you commit a copyright violation. You really haven't understood
the entire issue by your observation, so I suggest you invest time at
http://www.slyck.com and learn, before you make erroneous statements about a
subject beyond your present ken.

As for bowling, many Las Vegas casinos have lanes. What was your problem with

them? Oh, I forgot, you're above that!

That's certainly not what was said. But since you seem to have a need to
learn about my private life, you should know that I just got off crutches
about a month ago from an injury in May -- this is the first trip I've taken
in a long time. Bowling, like billiards, takes a lot of time to master, and
it's good if you consider yourself proficient -- because then we are less
likely to ever meet.

I really don't mind someone having different perspectives, but please try to

stay with facts and leave your ego out of trip reports. I really don't care if
you've changed.

Dick, I look forward to your own trip report! Thanks for your comments!

···

From: "rgmustain" <rgmustain@att.net>
Subject: Re: Sam's Town Trip Report 3/5

#2

Hi all, I have extracted lots of good info from this group thanks for that. I'm not driving to Reno, I learned about monopoly colors, learned to play max coins (hit 4 of a kind on bonus poker here in Canada and won $120, my first big amount on VP) ((ok nickles.... I'm a newbie)), and most important what games not to play........

But I also have watched volleys of what seems to be unnecessary artilery flying back and forth. As a new member, and I do not see any pecking order type ranking, so I am just as much a member as anyone else......I gotta say I am hitting my delete button more often than I am reading the posts recently. I picked this group because it had a lot of members and figured more VP info......wrong it seems. If the number of members was reduced to the people actually discussing VP, I suggest that the other groups may be competitive with this one. How bout for the New Year we all hit our respective reset buttons and start it off trying to help each other with VP. As a newbie I don't have a whole lot to contribute to VP yet as I have not been playing long, but I can contribute some objective "new blood" insight and say it is getting unpleasant to read and souring the group to any newcomers who may drop in......

Now, back to VP, I'm going to Vegas on the 3rd for 13 days, is the January lunch scheduled yet?? I would love to go if it is on the books before the 13th.

Are there any VP schools I can visit while there and take/pay for lessons?? Like a dealers school. Saw something about Mr. Dancer but I can't find it now.....

Lastly anybody want to teach me the subtleties ?? I'm not too dumb...can't spell too well, but I can pick it up quick...... been studying JOB and DW strategies from the links from this group......ready to learn penalty cards... I'll buy lunch!!!

There is a lot of talent and knowlege in this group. Let's use it wisely.

Happy New Year!

Pid

···

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

You don't need a school, you need a video poker tutorial program such as Winpoker or Frugal VP.

Here is the Holy Trinity of Video Poker ...

1. Know how to identify the best machines.
2. Know where the best machines are.
3. Know how to play the machine correctly.

The first 2 items are provided free via the vpFREE links.
The third is obtained through practice on a vp tutorial program, backed up with strategy charts.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Pid Stu
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:21 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Can we get back to VP?? VP lunch date determined for Jan??

  Are there any VP schools I can visit while there and take/pay for lessons?? Like a dealers school. Saw something about Mr. Dancer but I can't find it now.....

  Lastly anybody want to teach me the subtleties ?? I'm not too dumb...can't spell too well, but I can pick it up quick...... been studying JOB and DW strategies from the links from this group......ready to learn penalty cards... I'll buy lunch!!!

  There is a lot of talent and knowlege in this group. Let's use it wisely.

  Happy New Year!

  Pid

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

Thanks A.P. Already figured out 1 and 2 and spent the whole evening downloading the casinos and the best machines on the Palm Pilot, so I can refer to them in LV parking lots and find the machines. The detail is great, hopefully I will be able to to something meaningful from this trip.

Been playing @ http://wizardofodds.com/java/deuceswild/deuceswild.html which tells you when you make mistakes. I can only assume this is a good program. I try to work the difficult hands back into the strategy charts. Maybe I'll buy something interesting from Mr. Dancer @ the class when I go.

I must be mindfull to add money management to your list as well, otherwise it negates 1 2 and 3.

Thanks for the advice

Pid

···

Albert Pearson <a-p@sympatico.ca> wrote:
You don't need a school, you need a video poker tutorial program such as Winpoker or Frugal VP.

Here is the Holy Trinity of Video Poker ...

1. Know how to identify the best machines.
2. Know where the best machines are.
3. Know how to play the machine correctly.

The first 2 items are provided free via the vpFREE links.
The third is obtained through practice on a vp tutorial program, backed up with strategy charts.

Regards
A.P.
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Pid Stu
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 11:21 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Can we get back to VP?? VP lunch date determined for Jan??

  Are there any VP schools I can visit while there and take/pay for lessons?? Like a dealers school. Saw something about Mr. Dancer but I can't find it now.....

  Lastly anybody want to teach me the subtleties ?? I'm not too dumb...can't spell too well, but I can pick it up quick...... been studying JOB and DW strategies from the links from this group......ready to learn penalty cards... I'll buy lunch!!!

  There is a lot of talent and knowlege in this group. Let's use it wisely.

  Happy New Year!

  Pid

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

Pid: Instead of buying strategy charts I would suggest you buy VPSM (video poker strategy master). It will allow you to make your own charts for almost all variations of Video Poker.
Regarding money management... It is really a part of gambling not a part of Video Poker. Many people believe that money management is a useless pursuit if you are playing positive E.V. video poker, if you have the edge you will eventually pull ahead of the game ( theoretically ). I believe that one must set a budget for gambling the same as any other activity and stick to that budget.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Pid Stu
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 12:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Can we get back to VP?? VP lunch date determined for Jan??

  Thanks A.P. Already figured out 1 and 2 and spent the whole evening downloading the casinos and the best machines on the Palm Pilot, so I can refer to them in LV parking lots and find the machines. The detail is great, hopefully I will be able to to something meaningful from this trip.

  Been playing @ http://wizardofodds.com/java/deuceswild/deuceswild.html which tells you when you make mistakes. I can only assume this is a good program. I try to work the difficult hands back into the strategy charts. Maybe I'll buy something interesting from Mr. Dancer @ the class when I go.

  I must be mindfull to add money management to your list as well, otherwise it negates 1 2 and 3.

  Thanks for the advice

  Pid

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

John,

a little better. At least you've started to add some facts. You still
did not mention the two "upscale" restaurants at Sam's Town, but if
your future trip reports are along this line it would be better.

Dick

PS. If you read a little more closely you'll see I never said
pirating copyrighted material was a crime. However, your actions
speak volumes for your moral character.

Hi all --

We didn't blow in from AC until the wee hours -- Caesars' quarter

slanttops

under the escalator (that everyone in ACVPP knows about) were

paying a

progressive close to $2100. But someone else eventually won it. :frowning:

Thanks to all the people who've mailed me comments outside the

group. As

William Shatner once said -- "Here's champagne to my real friends,

and real

pain to my sham friends!"

/JJG

  From: "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...>
Subject: Re: Sam's Town Trip Report 3/5

>What a bunch of self-exalting garbage. I'm not quite as tactful as

Harry, but

as I was just at Sam's Town myself I must comment ...

Thank you for your comments, Dick!

>Let's analyze your analysis of VP... ZIP. It must be that plays

over 101%

(without 6x points) are not good enough? Yeah sure. And which of

the non

"upscale" restaurants did you try? Give us the facts not an opinion

on

something you clearly did not even visit.

Well, the 24-hour "Cafe" was closed for renovation, so they took

over the

Mexican restaurant. We did not eat at the McDonald's in the

courtyard, or

S'barro pizza -- because that chain uses so much MSG it gives us

instant

headaches. The buffet line had well over a hundred people every

time we

looked.

"Analysis of VP"? I recommend the vpFree database -- this is a

trip report,

which means it's partly a lifestyle reflection -- not an audit.

I'm sorry if

you were hoping for something else.

You mentioned that you were just at ST, so I hope your trip report

to the

group will serve as a template for what you'd like to see from

other people.

>Let's disucss [sic] the rooms. They are nothing like Motel 6, but

judging

from your comments you probably would never lower yourself to go

there.

Been there, done that. Yawn.

> However, you missed pointing out the main problem with the rooms.

While

adequate in size the walls are paper thin. This can be a problem if

you have

noisy neighbors.

That actually didn't bother us so much.

When we were in Germany, we stayed in a couple modest postwar

motels that were

REALLY thin-walled -- nothing so substantial as 1/2" drywall, but

more like

shellacked cardboard. In Japan, we've stayed in local housing

(i.e., not

built for the Western market) where you have to roll up your futon

to have

room to open a suitcase. But in both of those circumstances,

although the

construction used cheap materials, the workmanship was of the best

possible

order.

In Sams, it was the combination of cheap materials, sloppy

construction, and

poor maintenance -- the mismatched or peeling wallpaper seams, the

cigarette

odor and rug burns on a "nonsmoking" floor -- that was a constant

in-your-face

annoyance.

>How about some facts. I really don't care about your opinions

since you

obviously think you're better than most people. And you made that

abundantly

clear with your comments about Walmart, Motel 6, bowling lanes and

movie

theaters. I think your 'evolution' is pitiful.

Dick, I really can't respond to your attitude. Wish I could email

you a pack

of Tums.

>Speaking of movies, some of us don't partake in pirating

copyrighted media.

You sure don't look special in my eyes for bragging about it.

Some people don't have the technical acumen, and some people don't

understand

that "found media" on the Net isn't a crime. It's when _you_ share

with other

people that you commit a copyright violation. You really haven't

understood

the entire issue by your observation, so I suggest you invest time

at

http://www.slyck.com and learn, before you make erroneous

statements about a

subject beyond your present ken.

>As for bowling, many Las Vegas casinos have lanes. What was your

problem with

them? Oh, I forgot, you're above that!

That's certainly not what was said. But since you seem to have a

need to

learn about my private life, you should know that I just got off

crutches

about a month ago from an injury in May -- this is the first trip

I've taken

in a long time. Bowling, like billiards, takes a lot of time to

master, and

it's good if you consider yourself proficient -- because then we

are less

likely to ever meet.

>I really don't mind someone having different perspectives, but

please try to

stay with facts and leave your ego out of trip reports. I really

don't care if

you've changed.

Dick, I look forward to your own trip report! Thanks for your

comments!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John Ginnane" <jginnane@b...> wrote:

#7

rgmustain wrote:

John,

a little better. At least you've started to add some facts. You still
did not mention the two "upscale" restaurants at Sam's Town, but if
your future trip reports are along this line it would be better.

Dick

PS. If you read a little more closely you'll see I never said
pirating copyrighted material was a crime. However, your actions
speak volumes for your moral character.

snip

I believe your first comment about pirating copyrighted material was this one, in message 24523:

   "Speaking of movies, some of us don't partake in pirating copyrighted
   media. You sure don't look special in my eyes for bragging about it."

When I first read it, I assumed that I had just missed something in a previous post, so I ignored it. Seeing it again, above, I became curious and spent the time reviewing the posts.

Frankly, I can't find any statement, or even an insinuation by Mr. Ginnane, that he has violated any copyrights or any laws. I can't find where he said that he either sells or gives away copyrighted material of any sort, or that he purchases any pirated products of any nature. And I haven't found any statements by him offering to buy or sell such goods. He said that he has 40 movies and that he was in the process of downloading one. Where did he say that he had done anything in violation of copyright laws? For all we know, he was using the Internet to legitimately download a film, that he had actually paid for, from a source which is licensed to sell the real article. While I don't know of a website to do that, I haven't looked, and I'm smart enough to know that the Internet is a big place, and changing all the time. I have a natural tendency to believe people are innocent until proven guilty. Now unless I've missed something, or unless you have some evidence that hasn't been shared yet, I'd say that you owe Mr. Ginnane an apology.

And incidentally, I'd be _highly_surprised_ to discover that pirating copyrighted software is _NOT_ a crime in all places within the U.S. In fact, it's _probably_ covered by a federal law, but then I don't have time to check right now.

Bill Velek

#8

Bill,
Perhaps you did miss the comment in question indeed.

Sam's Town is unique among properties we visited because they have a

bowling alley -- we >don't bowl -- and a movie theatre. Well... sorry guys,
but I brought 40 movies with me on >my Toshiba laptop. The movies I brought
were ALL fresher than what the casino was >showing; the only one I didn't
have was the final installment of LOTR (which I'm >downloading as I write
this).

The "final installment of LOTR" (Lord Of The Rings) was just released into
theaters less than two weeks ago. I don't find any place on the web that
this film is for sale or download legitimately. Businesses do not usually
invest huge amounts of money in a product so that me-generation folks who
feel entitled can steal their property via technology. Whether one
distributes that property for profit is not the issue. Most of us realize
that walking into a retail store and shoplifting a DVD for one's personal
use is illegal and unethical, no matter if you sell it to another.
Downloading copyrighted material is just as unethical. IMHO anyway.

Steve

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Velek [mailto:billve…@…net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 7:33 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: One more for the early comments – then I've gotta
finish the "reports" :slight_smile:

rgmustain wrote:

John,

a little better. At least you've started to add some facts. You still
did not mention the two "upscale" restaurants at Sam's Town, but if
your future trip reports are along this line it would be better.

Dick

PS. If you read a little more closely you'll see I never said
pirating copyrighted material was a crime. However, your actions
speak volumes for your moral character.

snip

I believe your first comment about pirating copyrighted material was
this one, in message 24523:

   "Speaking of movies, some of us don't partake in pirating copyrighted
   media. You sure don't look special in my eyes for bragging about it."

When I first read it, I assumed that I had just missed something in a
previous post, so I ignored it. Seeing it again, above, I became
curious and spent the time reviewing the posts.

Frankly, I can't find any statement, or even an insinuation by Mr.
Ginnane, that he has violated any copyrights or any laws. I can't find
where he said that he either sells or gives away copyrighted material of
any sort, or that he purchases any pirated products of any nature. And
I haven't found any statements by him offering to buy or sell such
goods. He said that he has 40 movies and that he was in the process of
downloading one. Where did he say that he had done anything in
violation of copyright laws? For all we know, he was using the Internet
to legitimately download a film, that he had actually paid for, from a
source which is licensed to sell the real article. While I don't know
of a website to do that, I haven't looked, and I'm smart enough to know
that the Internet is a big place, and changing all the time. I have a
natural tendency to believe people are innocent until proven guilty.
Now unless I've missed something, or unless you have some evidence that
hasn't been shared yet, I'd say that you owe Mr. Ginnane an apology.

And incidentally, I'd be _highly_surprised_ to discover that pirating
copyrighted software is _NOT_ a crime in all places within the U.S. In
fact, it's _probably_ covered by a federal law, but then I don't have
time to check right now.

Bill Velek

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

Steve Jacobsen wrote:

Bill,
Perhaps you did miss the comment in question indeed.

>Sam's Town is unique among properties we visited because they have a
bowling alley -- we >don't bowl -- and a movie theatre. Well... sorry guys,
but I brought 40 movies with me on >my Toshiba laptop. The movies I brought
were ALL fresher than what the casino was >showing; the only one I didn't
have was the final installment of LOTR (which I'm >downloading as I write
this).

No, I didn't missed it; that's the comment I read.

The "final installment of LOTR" (Lord Of The Rings) was just released into
theaters less than two weeks ago. I don't find any place on the web that
this film is for sale or download legitimately. Businesses do not usually
invest huge amounts of money in a product so that me-generation folks who
feel entitled can steal their property via technology. Whether one
distributes that property for profit is not the issue. Most of us realize
that walking into a retail store and shoplifting a DVD for one's personal
use is illegal and unethical, no matter if you sell it to another.
Downloading copyrighted material is just as unethical. IMHO anyway.

Well, I didn't know what LOTR was, and what you've just explained does make a lot of sense. I don't follow new movies and releases and that sort of thing.

I also have what I consider to be high ethical standards and very strong feelings about copyrighted material; I've stated this before in this group. But before anyone thinks I am claiming to be perfect and am asking to be nominated for sainthood, let me explain my take on the copyrighted material issue. Probably 99.9% of us, if we were truly honest, have violated copyrights, but in most instances they are probably what I consider to be harmless to the author, and about as sinful as a 'white lie'. In my own life, I do not collect .mpeg music -- something which has gotten lots of attention lately; I suppose that people who do are the very folks who are interested enough in music that a lot of them would probably be buying it if they couldn't copy it. So I can understand artists getting upset about that. Personally, there were times in my life when I used to record songs from the radio onto cassette tapes, which is just as much a violation; maybe I'm rationalizing now, but I have never been the type to buy music -- records, tapes, or CDs -- and if I had not copied songs from the radio onto cassettes, I no doubt would have done without them entirely and just listened to the radio. So there was no economic loss to the artists. I haven't recorded any music via cassette or any other way in years, but what we are guilty of doing now is something similar; we tape record a daily soap opera so that my wife can watch it at night after work; when we watch it, we fast forward through the commercials. There are also times when we won't be home when a particular show or movie is coming on -- or maybe we notice that it is on at very early hours of the morning when we need to be in bed; on those occasions, we will likewise record the movie on VHS. So, that being the case, I would still not cast the first stone against Mr. Ginnani, who it seems to me isn't necessarily doing anything any worse -- the fact that he is using his computer versus my VCR is of no consequence. The fact that he might watch Lord of the Rings during his flight home, where I might watch Sparticus a couple of weeks after I've recorded it at home is likewise of no consequence. I would never go out and buy Sparticus, nor pay to see it in a theatre; mine is a victimless crime. And I have no idea whether Mr. Gianni is any different in that regard.

I have much stronger and more stringent views about software, and there are big distinctions between software and music or movies.

Bill Velek

#10

I was recently searching the internet for some information and ran across a
familiar looking page. A person had stole my copyrighted web site down to
the story my son who had passed away. She just lifted the pages, put he name
on them and claimed they were hers. When I confronted her, via e-mail, she
sent me horrible abusive e-mails that blamed me for her being able to steal
them (for example if I really wanted to protect them I should have
dis-allowed right click). I had to bring my attorney in on it. He wrote her
a cease and desist letter and she removed it. In it's place was a page
slandering me pretty heavily.. once again trot out the attorney.. she
removed it. It was a hassle so I am pretty paranoid about copyrights now.

Oh and LOTR = Lord of the Rings

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#11

snip
we tape
record a daily soap opera so that my wife can watch it at night

after

work; when we watch it, we fast forward through the commercials.

There

are also times when we won't be home when a particular show or

movie is

coming on -- or maybe we notice that it is on at very early hours

of the

morning when we need to be in bed; on those occasions, we will

likewise

record the movie on VHS. So, that being the case, I would still

not

cast the first stone against Mr. Ginnani, who it seems to me isn't
necessarily doing anything any worse -- the fact that he is using

his

computer versus my VCR is of no consequence. The fact that he

might

watch Lord of the Rings during his flight home, where I might watch
Sparticus a couple of weeks after I've recorded it at home is

likewise

of no consequence. I would never go out and buy Sparticus, nor pay

to

see it in a theatre; mine is a victimless crime. And I have no

idea

whether Mr. Gianni is any different in that regard.

I have much stronger and more stringent views about software, and

there

are big distinctions between software and music or movies.

Bill Velek

Bill,

I agree with your views entirely.

The difference is that no one is publicly broadcasting the materials
that are pirated. Sometimes they are filmed via camcorder by someone
who goes to a currently running movie. Sometimes copies of the
original filmtrack are made. In either event they are obtained
illegally and then made available for download.

My view on downloading pirated copyrighted material is that it is
basically equivalent to receiving stolen goods.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:

#12

Nitpick: There is nothing unethical about downloading copyrighted
matherial *IF* the copyright specifically permits it. Linux and a great
deal of other "Open Source" software is freely availabe under such
terms.

···

On Tuesday 30 December 2003 09:21 am, Steve Jacobsen wrote:

Downloading copyrighted material is just as unethical. IMHO anyway.