vpFREE2 Forums

Occam's Razor

#1

Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".

I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.

He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".

Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.

You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.

Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.

Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.

Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)

~FK

#2

I appreciate a good story and how it all came to be, and it's hardly a game-changer esp. for an out-of-towner like myself. But, did he recognize/understand that the sign was incorrect for those games, and is anything being done to rectify the situation?

···

From: Frank <frank@progressivevp.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:50 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Occam's Razor

Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".

I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.

He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".

Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.

You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.

Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.

Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.

Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)

~FK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

I disagree, Frank. The sun doesn't rise - the earth turns. :- )

.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)

~FK

#4

I used to run a private poker game, I spoiled the players. Filet mignon, fine wine, etc., I just bent over backwards to treat them well. This was when I was younger and didn't know any better. No matter what I did, the "cards were sticky", "it's too smokey in here", on and on. They're gamblers. They're never friggin happy unless they're complaining about something.

And they crushed their cigarettes out on the floor next to the toilet, IN MY APARTMENT! Yeah, their charm.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.

Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)

#5

I'm sorry, I just don't understand your statement. How was the sign wrong? When we met he actually asked me if the sign was acceptable and I told him it was perfectly fine. I must be missing something.

We know the bank can reach 102.5% because it has already gotten there at least three times--Even on one of the meters that wasn't seeded, and rose from reset.

Up to 102.5%+ is in my opinion a perfectly reasonable, and if anything understated statement.

You did read the whole recount didn't you? By the method he used, the claim cannot be false. Unless you are disputing the accuracy of Winpoker and other VP trainer software.

So I guess the quick answer is "no" he does not realize that anything is amiss and needs fixing...for that matter neither do I.

Whatever it is you are taking issue with is not on my radar.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rob Singer <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:

I appreciate a good story and how it all came to be, and it's hardly a game-changer esp. for an out-of-towner like myself. But, did he recognize/understand that the sign was incorrect for those games, and is anything being done to rectify the situation?

From: Frank <frank@...>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:50 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Occam's Razor

Â

Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".

I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.

He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".

Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.

You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.

Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.

Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.

Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)

~FK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

"Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms"

What??? No way!

Ha ha
Valerie

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6172 (20110601) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

"Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could."

Precisely the type of explanation one would expect from someone who is part of the conspiracy. I guess that proves Frank's in on it.

···

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: frank@progressivevp.com
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 21:50:47 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Occam's Razor

Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".

I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.

He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".

Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.

You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.

Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.

Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.

Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)

~FK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Now that is funny:)

While we are at it, that Black Death thing in Europe in the 14th century was me to...and I have also cut down a cherry tree.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, David Silvus <djsilvus@...> wrote: "Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could."

···

Precisely the type of explanation one would expect from someone who is part of the conspiracy. I guess that proves Frank's in on it.

To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: frank@...
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 21:50:47 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Occam's Razor

Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".

I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.

He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".

Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.

You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.

Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.

Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.

Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)

~FK

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#9

I think it would be more exciting and better for them if they posted a running clock showing the highest meter. Something like "Quarter VP -$3812 Royal Flush" and show that number increasing.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, I just don't understand your statement. How was the sign wrong? When we met he actually asked me if the sign was acceptable and I told him it was perfectly fine. I must be missing something.

We know the bank can reach 102.5% because it has already gotten there at least three times--Even on one of the meters that wasn't seeded, and rose from reset.

Up to 102.5%+ is in my opinion a perfectly reasonable, and if anything understated statement.

You did read the whole recount didn't you? By the method he used, the claim cannot be false. Unless you are disputing the accuracy of Winpoker and other VP trainer software.

So I guess the quick answer is "no" he does not realize that anything is amiss and needs fixing...for that matter neither do I.

Whatever it is you are taking issue with is not on my radar.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rob Singer <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
>
> I appreciate a good story and how it all came to be, and it's hardly a game-changer esp. for an out-of-towner like myself. But, did he recognize/understand that the sign was incorrect for those games, and is anything being done to rectify the situation?
>
>
> From: Frank <frank@>
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:50 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Occam's Razor
>
>
> Â
>
> Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".
>
> I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.
>
> He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".
>
> Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.
>
> You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.
>
> Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.
>
> Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.
>
> Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)
>
> ~FK
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#10

They are working on it. Digital signs take about three months to fabricate.

~FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

I think it would be more exciting and better for them if they posted a running clock showing the highest meter. Something like "Quarter VP -$3812 Royal Flush" and show that number increasing.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, I just don't understand your statement. How was the sign wrong? When we met he actually asked me if the sign was acceptable and I told him it was perfectly fine. I must be missing something.
>
> We know the bank can reach 102.5% because it has already gotten there at least three times--Even on one of the meters that wasn't seeded, and rose from reset.
>
> Up to 102.5%+ is in my opinion a perfectly reasonable, and if anything understated statement.
>
> You did read the whole recount didn't you? By the method he used, the claim cannot be false. Unless you are disputing the accuracy of Winpoker and other VP trainer software.
>
> So I guess the quick answer is "no" he does not realize that anything is amiss and needs fixing...for that matter neither do I.
>
> Whatever it is you are taking issue with is not on my radar.
>
> ~FK
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rob Singer <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
> >
> > I appreciate a good story and how it all came to be, and it's hardly a game-changer esp. for an out-of-towner like myself. But, did he recognize/understand that the sign was incorrect for those games, and is anything being done to rectify the situation?
> >
> >
> > From: Frank <frank@>
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:50 PM
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Occam's Razor
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> > Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".
> >
> > I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.
> >
> > He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".
> >
> > Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.
> >
> > You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.
> >
> > Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.
> >
> > Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.
> >
> > Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)
> >
> > ~FK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

#11

If the machines are not set to stop at 102.5%, then the signs are wrong. "Up to 102.5%" means exactly that and nothing else. If any of the games ever go anything above that point--which they already have and will continue to do so--then the language is incorrect.

I suggest they advertise accurately instead of floating a number out there that they believe will satisfy customers who'll be impressed with 102.5%. "Up to 102.5%, and occasionally higher" would fulfill that bill.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, I just don't understand your statement. How was the sign wrong? When we met he actually asked me if the sign was acceptable and I told him it was perfectly fine. I must be missing something.

We know the bank can reach 102.5% because it has already gotten there at least three times--Even on one of the meters that wasn't seeded, and rose from reset.

Up to 102.5%+ is in my opinion a perfectly reasonable, and if anything understated statement.

You did read the whole recount didn't you? By the method he used, the claim cannot be false. Unless you are disputing the accuracy of Winpoker and other VP trainer software.

So I guess the quick answer is "no" he does not realize that anything is amiss and needs fixing...for that matter neither do I.

Whatever it is you are taking issue with is not on my radar.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rob Singer <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
>
> I appreciate a good story and how it all came to be, and it's hardly a game-changer esp. for an out-of-towner like myself. But, did he recognize/understand that the sign was incorrect for those games, and is anything being done to rectify the situation?
>
>
> From: Frank <frank@>
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:50 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Occam's Razor
>
>
> Â
>
> Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".
>
> I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.
>
> He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".
>
> Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.
>
> You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.
>
> Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.
>
> Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.
>
> Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)
>
> ~FK
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

#12

Wow. OK I wasn't expecting that even a little bit. No wonder it was off my radar. You are correct, I guess that would be more accurate.

It's just the casino is claiming less than what's true, which I don't really think is cause for action.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...> wrote: If the machines are not set to stop at 102.5%, then the signs are wrong. "Up to 102.5%" means exactly that and nothing else. If any of the games ever go anything above that point--which they already have and will continue to do so--then the language is incorrect.

···

I suggest they advertise accurately instead of floating a number out there that they believe will satisfy customers who'll be impressed with 102.5%. "Up to 102.5%, and occasionally higher" would fulfill that bill.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry, I just don't understand your statement. How was the sign wrong? When we met he actually asked me if the sign was acceptable and I told him it was perfectly fine. I must be missing something.
>
> We know the bank can reach 102.5% because it has already gotten there at least three times--Even on one of the meters that wasn't seeded, and rose from reset.
>
> Up to 102.5%+ is in my opinion a perfectly reasonable, and if anything understated statement.
>
> You did read the whole recount didn't you? By the method he used, the claim cannot be false. Unless you are disputing the accuracy of Winpoker and other VP trainer software.
>
> So I guess the quick answer is "no" he does not realize that anything is amiss and needs fixing...for that matter neither do I.
>
> Whatever it is you are taking issue with is not on my radar.
>
> ~FK
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rob Singer <rob.singer1111@> wrote:
> >
> > I appreciate a good story and how it all came to be, and it's hardly a game-changer esp. for an out-of-towner like myself. But, did he recognize/understand that the sign was incorrect for those games, and is anything being done to rectify the situation?
> >
> >
> > From: Frank <frank@>
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:50 PM
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Occam's Razor
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> > Optional title, "Sometimes a Cigar is Just a Cigar".
> >
> > I noticed tons of posts about the signs on the new M progressive. Few of them favorable and many of them outright accusatory. I postulated on it's origin and what it meant, but we need guess no longer. I bumped into its creator yesterday at the M, and simply asked him how he created it and where he got the numbers from. Here's the answer.
> >
> > He left his office, went downstairs, wrote down the highest meter (at the time) went back to his office, ran the game with that JP amount on Winpoker, recorded the return and added the words, "up to".
> >
> > Now here's the irony: In his own words, "I did this so there was no chance anyone could question it, or accuse us of false advertising." He figured if it was already at this number when he looked at it, and he included "up to" he was totally safe.
> >
> > You can imagine his surprise when he caught wind of all the hubbub on vpFREE.
> >
> > Sorry...no conspiracy...no deliberate attempt to deceive...no hush hush meetings in dark smoke filled rooms--just a single guy tasked with writing advertising copy for something he really wasn't all that familiar with, trying to do his job as best he could. It's not as interesting as an Illuminati spawned plot to fleece you of your money, but the truth rarely is as "interesting" as fiction.
> >
> > Most of the time the simplest answer is the truth and a cigar is just a cigar.
> >
> > Don't worry, I soothed his ruffled feathers and assured him had he boldly stated that the sun would rise tomorrow, some people on vpFREE would still disagree. That's its charm:)
> >
> > ~FK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

#13

It's not really being critical as much as how I prefer clarity. Regardless, kudos for these guys getting such interesting machines in there even though I'm not much of a progressives player, and I'm not one for taking pot shots chasing larger royals.

I became pretty good friends with Rich Strafella (casino mgr.) & Joe Magliarditi (gm) who originally ran the M until they went to the Hard Rock to take over for the boss who killed himself. I used to have dinner with these two when they brought the Edgewater & Colorado Belle back to life before opening the M. I believe that if the economy were normal instead of in deep decline when the M opened they would still be there. It's a beautiful property and still one of my favorites esp. with its out-of-the-way location, and I almost always stay there while in town.

···

From: Sai Sai <gofastnismo@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2011 5:40 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Occam's Razor

Its interesting that Singer is being so critical of the M when, in the past, it has been one of his favorite places to play. I thought you still had a buddy working over there Rob?

#14

clarity is rarely a hallmark of a good marketing message. to say "up to 102.5%, and occasionally higher" might be accurate, but it's a clumsy marketing message.

what makes for a good marketing message is simplicity and the *appearance* of clarity.

"buy pepsi. get stuff."

that's a great message. simple and clear... even though it isn't really clear at all.

what kind of pepsi? what if i buy diet pepsi? or pepsi max? and what about other pepsi brands like sierra mist? is that included in the promo? and what about all the stuff i'm getting? what kind of stuff? bicycles? ipods? cars? refrigerators?

it's not a very clear statement, even though it appears to be. and it leaves many questions unanswered.

but it's a great marketing message.

advertising a VP progressive as having "up to 102% payback" is simple and understandable, even if it may not be entirely accurate. since the average joe thinks paybacks couldn't possibly go higher than 100%, it's a pretty darn good marketing message in that regard.

then again, if payback is advertised as being "up to 102%," why should i settle for anything less? i'll just sit the action out till it gets up to 102% and then hop on. that's the problem with advertising "up to 102%."

who would want to play something that hasn't achieved it's advertised potential?

why give your customers a valid reason to NOT buy your product?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rob Singer <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:

It's not really being critical as much as how I prefer clarity.

#15

I understand there are different levels of marketing skills for different products & services. I presided over a major aerospace contractor's international marketing dept. for 15 years, and absolute clarity--at least in foreign markets for American goods--was the basis for trust that piqued interest & got out foot in the door.

I have little experience in gaming advertising or marketing however, which is probably why I questioned this. I don't get the "buy Pepsi, get stuff" slogan but I'll take your word for it.

···

From: ukstages <takeme2london@gmail.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2011 12:41 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Occam's Razor

clarity is rarely a hallmark of a good marketing message. to say "up to 102.5%, and occasionally higher" might be accurate, but it's a clumsy marketing message.

what makes for a good marketing message is simplicity and the *appearance* of clarity.

"buy pepsi. get stuff."

that's a great message. simple and clear... even though it isn't really clear at all.

what kind of pepsi? what if i buy diet pepsi? or pepsi max? and what about other pepsi brands like sierra mist? is that included in the promo? and what about all the stuff i'm getting? what kind of stuff? bicycles? ipods? cars? refrigerators?

it's not a very clear statement, even though it appears to be. and it leaves many questions unanswered.

but it's a great marketing message.

advertising a VP progressive as having "up to 102% payback" is simple and understandable, even if it may not be entirely accurate. since the average joe thinks paybacks couldn't possibly go higher than 100%, it's a pretty darn good marketing message in that regard.

then again, if payback is advertised as being "up to 102%," why should i settle for anything less? i'll just sit the action out till it gets up to 102% and then hop on. that's the problem with advertising "up to 102%."

who would want to play something that hasn't achieved it's advertised potential?

why give your customers a valid reason to NOT buy your product?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Rob Singer <rob.singer1111@...> wrote:

It's not really being critical as much as how I prefer clarity.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#16

For people complaining about the 102% sign, would you also pitch a fit if a store had a banner saying "up to 20% off!" and you went in and bought something and it ended up being 25% off?

#17

I don't categorize these as complaints or fits - but rather as constructive criticisms. I'm sure Frank's taken note and will handle it in a professional way.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lone Locust of the Apocalypse <zorak@...> wrote:

For people complaining about the 102% sign, would you also pitch a fit if
a store had a banner saying "up to 20% off!" and you went in and bought
something and it ended up being 25% off?

#18

Not once - in this thread - have I seen anyone 'pitch a fit.' So, the
question is kind of silly. But, I will answer it anyway.

I would say the same thing about the '20% off' store banner that has been
said of the M signs: It is incorrect.

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On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Lone Locust of the Apocalypse < zorak@ninthbit.com> wrote:

For people complaining about the 102% sign, would you also pitch a fit if
a store had a banner saying "up to 20% off!" and you went in and bought
something and it ended up being 25% off?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#19

Not once - in this thread - have I seen anyone 'pitch a fit.' So, the
question is kind of silly.

I exaggerated to make the point. I don't think it makes the question useless.

I would say the same thing about the '20% off' store banner that has been
said of the M signs: It is incorrect.

That's not the point. No one would dispute that the M sign and the 20% off in the example are both inaccurate. The question is, are they worth caring about? If the actual return never reached 102.5%, then sure, we have a problem.

On the other hand, if I get something more than what was advertised and brought me in, it's not something I particularly care about (and I consider myself pretty OCD). YMMV, I guess.

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On Sun, 5 Jun 2011, Luke Fuller wrote: