I heard a rumor that NYNY has just barred dozens of winning VP
players. If true this could be a PR disaster for MGM-Mirage. Does
anyone have any information about this?
molly
NYNY following in Greektown's footsteps?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
"mollyslots <mollyslots@y...>" <
mollyslots@y...> wrote:
I heard a rumor that NYNY has just barred dozens of winning VP
players. If true this could be a PR disaster for MGM-Mirage. Does
anyone have any information about this?molly
I can't speak to the truth of this
but it seems strange because to
the best of my knowledge NY NY
doesn't have any full pay
machines. Last time I looked
there a couple of months ago
they didn't even have 9/6 Jacks
(which of course isn't full pay
even with their .33 cash back).
Saw only 8/5 in quarters. I'm not
sure that they've ever had
anything better than 9/6 ever
unless it was Pickem for awhile.
Can't believe they had any long
time VP winners to ban.
mikephman55 wrote:
I can't speak to the truth of this but it seems strange because to
the best of my knowledge NY NY doesn't have any full pay
machines. Last time I looked there a couple of months ago
they didn't even have 9/6 Jacks (which of course isn't full pay
even with their .33 cash back). Saw only 8/5 in quarters. I'm not
sure that they've ever had anything better than 9/6 ever
unless it was Pickem for awhile. Can't believe they had any long
time VP winners to ban.
NYNY has gone through a bit of schizo behavior as of late. Back last
August they had a reasonable inventory of 9/6 Jacks in various denoms,
including $'s. On the strength of this, I set up reservations for 3
nights for my trip in October. A couple of weeks before my trip they
downgraded these (well ... they still had 10-play $1 9/6 :). I cut my
reservation to one night. When I returned to LV in late Dec., a
walk-through revealed they had restored 9/6 JB in several
denominations on a few machines, including some multi-plays.
Your reference of these not being "full pay" apparently reflects the
fact that with cb they're not 100%+. You can't judge a strip casino
by locals standards. No strip casino (aside from the local anomaly BC
located on the strip) as 100% vp. But for the out-of-town visitor,
very good paytables combined with luxury digs and generous food comps
translates into a damn fine vacation bonus. Just keep in mind that
luxurious facilities require a much higher profit margin than
barn-like (though very comfortable and respectable, mind you) locals
facilities.
I don't know about the details of the benefit restrictions to some
players (there were no outright bans), but if the reports are accurate
then I would suspect they involve players who made VERY excessive use
of promo opportunities (at least in NYNY's eyes) and also managed some
nicely profitable play through shear luck and the playing of thin
margin games (9/6 JB and a 3-play bank of UD progs that frequently
become positive - and on which you can also get your ass kicked due to
the low base paytable, as I can personally attest :).
The promos that I've received from NYNY, on a day's play of $18K, are
very generous. One included $200 free play, a 1% benefit on my play.
So here's my take on what may have happened: they removed most of
their good inventory this fall and found that play dropped off with a
loss of profits and occupancy. They decided to restore the inventory,
but also attack the problem of unprofitable players head on. To their
credit they did this through less draconian measures than Greektown in
Detroit (bans) by denying a limited number of players cashback/comps
and dropping them from promotions.
From a business standpoint, in theory I can't say this is a poor
management move. Unfortunately, it usually involves such a haphazard
approach that I suspect it does more harm than good. If they target
players who have a history of giving them nominal play relative to the
benefits/promos they draw on, then they're probably on the right
track. If they simplistically target heavy hitters who may simply
have had a good year (and who would be likely to draw more heavily on
promos, but not relative to the amount of play) then it's probably
pretty short-sighted. There's a very good chance that they're
restricting a number of players who theoretically give the casino a
good margin (but "unfortunately" were lucky as of late) and yet
managed to accurately target a number of unprofitable players who play
on very thin profitable margins. The net result of the math: They
cut their overall profit, in a similar manner that the 9/6 cutbacks did.
Just a theory, but I suspect not too far off the mark as a whole.
- Harry
The 1st sentence below is correct but the last 1 is troubling.
Room/facility snobbery & worrying about the profit margins of such a
profitable casino play into the casinos' hands. There is no excuse
for this kind of action at all. If they need to cut expenses to meet
profit goals let them be upfront with everyone & not take random
people to the woodshed for unclear reasons. I am not a big player but
I find this creeping dishonesty by the casinos unforgivable &
something that should be punished by the Control board or the courts.
They set the rules & yet now are ambushing those who followed them.
Mike B
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter <harry.porter@v...>"
<harry.porter@v...> wrote:
Your reference of these not being "full pay" apparently reflects the
fact that with cb they're not 100%+. You can't judge a strip casino
by locals standards. No strip casino (aside from the local anomaly
BC
located on the strip) as 100% vp. But for the out-of-town visitor,
very good paytables combined with luxury digs and generous food
comps
···
translates into a damn fine vacation bonus. Just keep in mind that
luxurious facilities require a much higher profit margin than
barn-like (though very comfortable and respectable, mind you) locals
facilities.
NYNY used to have quarter 9/6 JB. I played it a couple years ago. Don't ask me the location. I played for a couple hours to see what would come in the mail. Nothing did, so I never went back.
Elaine
···
"mikephman55 <mikephman55@yahoo.com>" <mikephman55@yahoo.com> wrote:
Last time I looked
there a couple of months ago
they didn't even have 9/6 Jacks
(which of course isn't full pay
even with their .33 cash back).
Saw only 8/5 in quarters. I'm not
sure that they've ever had
anything better than 9/6 ever
unless it was Pickem for awhile.
Can't believe they had any long
time VP winners to ban.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com,
"Michael Boutot <
vegas_iwish@y...>" <
vegas_iwish@y...> wrote:
The 1st sentence below is correct but the last 1 is troubling.
Room/facility snobbery & worrying about the profit margins of such a
profitable casino play into the casinos' hands. There is no excuse
for this kind of action at all. If they need to cut expenses to meet
profit goals let them be upfront with everyone & not take random
people to the woodshed for unclear reasons. I am not a big player but
I find this creeping dishonesty by the casinos unforgivable &
something that should be punished by the Control board or the courts.
They set the rules & yet now are ambushing those who followed them.Mike B
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter <harry.porter@v...>"
<harry.porter@v...> wrote:> Your reference of these not being "full pay" apparently reflects the
> fact that with cb they're not 100%+. You can't judge a strip casino
> by locals standards. No strip casino (aside from the local anomaly
BC
> located on the strip) as 100% vp. But for the out-of-town visitor,
> very good paytables combined with luxury digs and generous food
comps
> translates into a damn fine vacation bonus. Just keep in mind that
> luxurious facilities require a much higher profit margin than
> barn-like (though very comfortable and respectable, mind you) locals
> facilities.
>
Mike;
I agree with you. I have an
impression that NY NY is out to
deprive (punish) anyone who
wins by depriving them of cash-
back cards, comps etc. They are
in the business of taking risks
and likely win 5% or more from
the average customer (and that
includes the guys/gals that win in
the calculation of "average").
Basically they are saying, we only
want losers here and if you win
we're going to pull the benefits
so you don't come back. Yet, like
all Strip casinos, excluding BC,
they offer pay schedules that are
totally in the casino's favor. Their
policy is naive for in theory (and I
would bet 99.99% of the time in
practice) the winners there in the
short run are going to end up
losing in the long run. My guess is
they have a very naive' rookie
management when it comes to
VP. I'd love to manage against
them and take their so-called
winning customers and offer the
same pay tables. I'd win in the
long run which is what it's about.
BTW I had assumed that their
original junking this fall of 9/6
Jacks and 8/5 bonus was to get
rid of even mid-level tourists that
wanted some type of reasonably
playable game to justify staying
and losing there. It looks to me
like it's about profit margin (they
don't just want losers but larger
losers). But. a large margin on
low or no play aint sound
management IMO. And, that's
where they're headed.
NYNY has 9/6 JB in blue glass Game Kings multis between the Harley
shop and HiLimit room. Personally played these last month.
hockeystl
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Elaine Rose <atlanticcityrose@y...>
wrote:
NYNY used to have quarter 9/6 JB. I played it a couple years
ago. Don't ask me the location. I played for a couple hours to see
what would come in the mail. Nothing did, so I never went back.
By the way, does anyone have some hard details (or even a few
soft-boiled ones :)?
- Harry