vpFREE2 Forums

NSUD Progressive Strategy Changes

I am asking a "general" question. Usually the machine I intend to play usually doesn't have a progressive royal high enough to merit the strategy changes I will discuss.

The machine is a $1 NSUD Progressive with the standard 25-16-10-4-4 paytable. Since I like that game anyway, the progressive feature is a nice "sweetener".

Ah, but with progressive royals come strategy changes. To keep the discussion brief I'm only interested in your opinion about three of them.

In each of the following dealt hands how high would the progressive royal have to be for you to discard the deuce (something you'd never do in a non-progressive NSUD game)?

1)A dealt three card royal with one deuce, i.e. 'JK'W

2)A dealt four card royal with one deuce, i.e. '10 QK'W

3)A dealt wild royal with one deuce, i.e. '10 JKA'W

Thanks for your attention and analysis.

Mikey

P.S. I'm assuming no 4 or 5 card royals dealt with 2 deuces would ever be played with the deuces being discarded. Please correct me if that assumption is wrong.

The machine is a $1 NSUD Progressive with the standard 25-16-10-4-4

paytable. Since I like that game anyway, the progressive feature is a nice
"sweetener".

Ah, but with progressive royals come strategy changes. To keep the

discussion brief I'm only interested in your opinion about three of them.

Some years ago I made a chart for NSUD 3-play quarter progressives, and I
will attempt to paste the chart on the bottom of this post. Since I only
logged the changes at $100 strike points, it is not as complex as one would
think. Now, before a VP purist jumps me, there are some changes that will
happen earlier than the posted strike point, but keep in mind, as with all
progressives, straight penalties are deck poison, and the potency of the
poison is almost always dependant on the number of gaps from the held card
in question. The figures that I use might include, for instance, 3
different straight penalties that occur at 3 different levels, but the next
highest hundred dollar increment in meter movement will cover them all.
Hell, my changes chart for 8-5 BP is so large you have to pick out a hand
hold by what mile marker the figure is at. As for your P.S. question, in a
progressive, there is no such thing as never. However, there are some
progressive holds that are well out of the realm of probability, such as
your 2 deuce pat wild royal. If it were Q hi, playing for dollars, you
would need a royal of $132,730 to drop the 2 deuces. Anyway, here's my
chart for quarter 3-play, you can calculate the figures for $ play.
            Nudge

NSUD .25 PROGRESSIVE -3 PLAY

Royal cyl var w strat chg 3-Roy Total
$1000 43456 25.78 99.73% $3000
$1100 42120 32.93 99.91% $3300
$1200 42120 32.93 100.10% $3600
$1300 41409 37.16 100.29% $3900
$1400 39745 42.58 100.49% $4200
$1500 39184 47.76 100.69% $4500
$1600 38736 53.31 100.90% $4800
$1700 38533 59.00 101.10% $5100
$1800 38116 65.41 101.31% $5400
$1900 37961 71.86 101.52% $5700
$2000 37776 78.76 101.74% $6000
$2500 37720 117.02 102.80% $7500
$3000 37642 163.97 103.86% $9000

ABBREVIATIONS
H=honor
AHs = ace + honor suited
KHs = king + honor suited

= greater than

INS = inside
ST = straight
PEN = penalty
FL = flush

STRIKE NUMBERS
$3,300 AHs NO PEN > REDRAW
$3,500 KHs NO PEN > ST 4 INS
$3,600 AHs w 1 ST PEN > REDRAW
$3,800 TJQs > 8TJQs
$3,900 KHs w 1 ST PEN >ST 4 INS
$4,000 4 ROY K HI >WILD ROYAL
$4,100 4 ROY A HI >WILD ROYAL
$4,200 K HI 3 ROY > 4 STFL INS
$4,400 KHs w FL PEN > ST 4 INS
$4,500 AHs w 1 FL PEN > REDRAW
$4,600 TJQs > TRIPS
$4,700 AHs w1 ST PEN & 1 FLU PEN
                    > REDRAW
$4,900 3 CD K HI ROY > TRIPS
$5,000 TJQs > 9TJQs
$5,100 AHs NO PEN > ST 4 INS
$5,200 TJQs > PAT STRAIGHT
$5,300 3 CD A HI ROY > TRIPS
$5,400 TJs > 7TJs w 1 ST PEN
$5,500 3 CD K HI ROY > PAT ST
$5,700 TJs > 7TJs NO PEN
$5,900 3 CD A HI ROY > PAT ST
$6,000 AHs w 1 FL PEN > ST 4 INS

···

From: "mikeymic" <mikeymic@yahoo.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] NSUD Progressive Strategy Changes

Many thanks to you and others who responded here and privately.

Frankly, the motivation to muster the required effort to "chase" progressive royals relates to their accessibility and the current value of the jackpot. Those of you who are Vegas locals can jump on opportunities you hear "through the grapevine".

Here in California, there may be a 1-2 hour commute to the casino, plus the awaiting value of the progressive royal is most likely unknown unless astronomically high (and then news gets out fairly quickly).

My question pertained to a game with no penalty in the normal paytable for offering a progressive. I feel these are the best opportunites for infrequent progressive players who master potentially complicated strategy changes as best they can.

For that reason,

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@...> wrote:

>

Some years ago I made a chart for NSUD 3-play quarter progressives, and I
will attempt to paste the chart on the bottom of this post. Since I only
logged the changes at $100 strike points, it is not as complex as one would
think. Now, before a VP purist jumps me, there are some changes that will
happen earlier than the posted strike point, but keep in mind, as with all
progressives, straight penalties are deck poison, and the potency of the
poison is almost always dependant on the number of gaps from the held card
in question.

I believe that you are asking about the penalty for using the wrong
strategy.

This is for a NSUD progressive using non-progressive NSUD strategy.

At 101% the return is 100.92%.

At 102% the return is 101.8%.

This is for a NSUD progressive using FPDW strategy.

At 101% the return is 99.93%

At 102% the return is 100.77%

···

_____

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
mikeymic
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 3:24 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: NSUD Progressive Strategy Changes

My question pertained to a game with no penalty in the normal paytable for
offering a progressive. I feel these are the best opportunites for
infrequent progressive players who master potentially complicated strategy
changes as best they can.

For that reason,

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]