Alot of folks here seem to blame Bob Dancer, Dan Paynar, ect. for
the demise of good video poker. But lets get down to the heart and
soul of the matter. 9/7 JB, 4700/4000 KBJW, All American, FPDW, FP
flush Attack and othergameswith a straight up 1% edge or better
(including cash back)are either extinct or on the endangered list.
These were BY FAR the bread and butter of the VP community,
regardless of the denomination played. I agree out of the millions
of people who play VP, 5-6000 are skilled/deciplined enough to be
consistant winners. But we all seem to forget that 5-6000 did a bang
em' up job of systemacticly destroying the aforementioned games. I
realize top experts like Mr.Dancer have put out plenty of useful
info, but it was enivitable. If not him, someone else would have. In
further defense of Bob Dancer its not his fault the above games are
fairly easy to learn! 2 in particular a chimpanzee could beat! Lets
face it, any half way intelligent Tom Dick and Jane with a decent
strategy and sufficient bankroll has a 98% chance to beat FP joker
poker. Dancer, Paymar, Frome, Jean Scott, ect have far and away done
more good to the vp community. I find it sadly ironic the 'spoonfed'
players who learned from Dancer's literature are now crying about
how the casinos are pulling games because the top pros are working
both sides. News flash: Coast Casinos didnt need Dan Paymar to tell
them that thier once bountiful VP inventory was being drilled by the
5-6000 club! Im just greatful I discoverded optimum play literature
or Id be toiling hopelessly away on 9/5 DDBP!
Not completly Dancer's fault
I don't BLAME Dancer or others for the demise of good video poker. However, I believe that they are all doing what they are doing now only due to the demise of good video poker. Video poker is rapidly going downhill. The exciting fairy-tale like days that Dancer writes about in his book MILLION DOLLAR VIDEO POKER are gone. As you said in your post, the games that aren't already extinct are on the endangered list. However, this isn't surprising to me at all. What is surprising to me is that VP as Dancer writes about ever existed at all ?
Sure I enjoy VP and the advantage of full pay games but a casino is a BUSINESS ! Businesses are in the business of making money not losing money. Why should they offer positive/full pay games at all ? Do they really need or want the business of the small % of skilled VP players out there? I doubt that is the market that they are interested in targeting. So why should they offer full pay games that give the player an edge ? I like it when they do but see no reason they should from a business point of view. Isn't gambling meant to be a form of entertainment rather than a profession or means of retirement? A GAME OF LUCK !
A casino is like any other business .......if a product is causing them to lose money and isn't making them money ......it's out the door ! Same applies to the customer.....if you are not generating a profit for them.....why do they need you as their customer ?
And.... yes, I do think there is somewhat of a conflict of interest with the experts/pro's. Pick a side......the player or the casino but not both !
Just my opinion, GOOD LUCK
Nita
By the way, Chimps are smarter than you're giving credit !
Dan Paynar, ect. for
the demise of good video poker. But lets get down to the heart and
soul of the matter. 9/7 JB, 4700/4000 KBJW, All American, FPDW, FP
flush Attack and othergameswith a straight up 1% edge or better
(including cash back)are either extinct or on the endangered list.
These were BY FAR the bread and butter of the VP community,
regardless of the denomination played. I agree out of the millions
of people who play VP, 5-6000 are skilled/deciplined enough to be
consistant winners. But we all seem to forget that 5-6000 did a bang
em' up job of systemacticly destroying the aforementioned games. I
realize top experts like Mr.Dancer have put out plenty of useful
info, but it was enivitable. If not him, someone else would have. In
further defense of Bob Dancer its not his fault the above games are
fairly easy to learn! 2 in particular a chimpanzee could beat! Lets
face it, any half way intelligent Tom Dick and Jane with a decent
strategy and sufficient bankroll has a 98% chance to beat FP joker
poker. Dancer, Paymar, Frome, Jean Scott, ect have far and away done
more good to the vp community. I find it sadly ironic the 'spoonfed'
players who learned from Dancer's literature are now crying about
how the casinos are pulling games because the top pros are working
both sides. News flash: Coast Casinos didnt need Dan Paymar to tell
them that thier once bountiful VP inventory was being drilled by the
5-6000 club! Im just greatful I discoverded optimum play literature
or Id be toiling hopelessly away on 9/5 DDBP!
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<However, I believe that they are all doing what they are doing now only due to the demise of good video poker.>>
Not me. I started writing about gambling in 1996, when very good VP opportunities abounded at all denominations.
···
________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
of your questions!
Sorry Ms. Scott . Your name never came to mind though. Not that I don't think you're not an expert though ! The comment wasn't intended as bad toward anyone though.
Jean Scott <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz> wrote: <<However, I believe that they are all doing what they are doing now only
due to the demise of good video poker.>>
Not me. I started writing about gambling in 1996, when very good VP
opportunities abounded at all denominations.
···
________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
of your questions!
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
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Visit your group "vpFREE" on the web.
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<However, I believe that they are all doing what they are doing now
only
due to the demise of good video poker.>>
I was going to let this go (as I don't really want to get into
another extended thread about this), but when Jean spoke up, I felt I
had to too.
My reports were first published in 1995, when I was barely into
dollar stakes and still played mostly quarters. My writing was mainly
inspired by the lack of good published information. I have a background
in teaching various things, so teaching others about video poker came
naturally. The only "reasonable" video poker writing I could find then
was Bradley Davis, Frome, Paymar, and Wong. While Davis and Wong were
accurate enough (but only about specific games I wasn't interested in),
the other two weren't --- by a long shot.
Writing about video poker hasn't been a particularly lucrative
career for me --- less than $300,000 total over 11 years. But what it
HAS done for me is force me to learn the games better than anyone else
does. If you have to write 7 new columns a month (go ahead and check out
the 150 articles on my website and look for duplicates if you like ---
then check out a like number of articles by most other gambling writers
and you'll see a LOT of duplication), you need to do a LOT of research
and practice. Studying the game (including penalty cards!) is the raw
material that has allowed me success as a player, teacher, writer, and
consultant.
And I still play a lot of video poker. People who think
opportunites have dried up aren't looking very hard. There's plenty of
money to be made playing video poker if you're good enough. I fully
expect to make another million dollars gambling over the next 6-8 years.
Bob Dancer
For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you know when the casino companies report earnings it is difficult to
see any impact to the earnings of the companies that have a good vp
inventory vs those that don't...
News flash: Coast Casinos didnt need Dan Paymar to tell
···
them that thier once bountiful VP inventory was being drilled by the
5-6000 club! Im just greatful I discoverded optimum play literature
or Id be toiling hopelessly away on 9/5 DDBP!
You would do better to think about whether the company is maximizing
income, not simply making money. Could a company get more EBITDA by
putting in better pay tables and advertising it? Certainly gross
margin % would decrease but done correctly EBITDA would increase in
absolute terms. Sam Walton understood this. Most gaming executives
(and owners) actually have the attitude of "We're making money so we're happy".
···
At 08:23 AM 3/5/2006, you wrote:
you know when the casino companies report earnings it is difficult to
see any impact to the earnings of the companies that have a good vp
inventory vs those that don't...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Let's not paint a group of people with a broad brush, when a fine point is required. I doubt that most VP writers* "'work' (get paid) for the casinos and 'educate' them
on how to improve the casino's edge and cut down the player's edge", as the original poster phrased it. I know I have never done so. And I doubt many others have either.
*I prefer writers, because I don't know what "expert" really means. There are many level of expertise and many areas of expertise within video poker.
Skip
www.vpplayer.com
anita walker wrote:
···
And.... yes, I do think there is somewhat of a conflict of interest with the experts/pro's. Pick a side......the player or the casino but not both !