vpFREE2 Forums

Nominees for 2004 vpFREE HALL OF FAME inductee - REMINDER

#1

Voting to determine the 2004 inductee into the vpFREE VIDEO POKER HALL OF
FAME will take place between 17 JUL and 31 JUL.

Each vpFREE member may cast one vote for one nominee, and can change their
vote at any time during the voting period.

The nominee receiving the most votes will be the 2004 inductee.

The nominees are:

http://members.cox.net/vpfree/NOM.htm

<a href="http://members.cox.net/vpfree/NOM.htm">
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/NOM.htm</a>

Between now and 17 JUL, additional nominees can be suggested by vpFREE
members (along with suggestees qualifications), and the merits of anyone's
favorite can be expounded and discussed.

vpFREE Administrator

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#2

vpFREE wrote:

Voting to determine the 2004 inductee into the vpFREE VIDEO POKER
HALL OF FAME will take place between 17 JUL and 31 JUL.

In what is surely an egotistical gesture ;), I'm setting forward my
selection for this poll and rationale.

It's a tough pick. The slate of candidates is aptly chosen. For
myself, I can attest to having been educated and influenced by each
candidate and am most appreciative of their endeavors. Those efforts,
likely across the board, are inspired mostly out of altruistic
motivations. To the extent that there's a commercial interest, it
represents a nominal livlihood in most cases.

Even in the case of a prolific contributor such as Jean Scott, a
fervent desire to educate clearly spearheads her enthusiasm.

I anticipate that most or all the names put forward will ultimately
hit the "HOF". When I consider those factors that most influence my
play experience, I opt for Bob Dancer this year.

···

-----

Dancer obviously has vocal detractors. It's been pointed out that
he's unique in playing both sides of the fence -- He offers up his
font of knowledge to players across the nation via columns, training
materials and classes. But, in the guise of consulting, he
aggressively looks to advise casinos on how they can best profit from
our play. Clearly that smacks of a conflict of interest.

There's also a cross section of pros, those who look to regularly
derive significant income from "positive" playing situations, who view
his casino play none to fondly. He's known to have very aggressively
played the most exceptional promotions and, as a consequence, is seen
to have killed plays that might have provided more sustained
opportunities to the field as a whole.

------

Even given these considerations, Dancer stands out in my mind as being
one of the most powerful influences on the casino scene whose efforts
benefit the player.

I'm alighned with the Group Administrator in asserting that the best
prospect for maintaining and growing a strong casino vp inventory is
informed player demand. The larger that body the better -- not just
out of numbers but because as lesser experienced players begin to
discern the better games, the casino profitability of games such as
9/6 Jacks improves.

In AC, there's a partnership between the Borgata and Dancer that's
downright stunning for this market. Now, it can be questioned whether
Dancer influenced their decision to load up the casino floor with an
unprecedented (for AC) number of 9/6 Jacks. It's likely they
recognized the need to come into the market with some oomph and felt
much more secure in offering the volume vs. the existing AC casinos --
who can be imagined as gritting their teeth with each decent machine
that is put on the floor, in very sparing quantity.

But whereas most of the other HOF candidates largely preach to the
converted in their writings, Dancer's classes have been responsible
for converting scores of infidels to the faith. And each new crop
that comes out of his classes, enthusiastically touted by the Borgata,
assures a continued demand for those 9/6 paytables that will keep
them a continued profitable presence on the floor. (Trust me when I
say it was unimaginable in pre-Borgata days that an AC casino would
actually post signs extolling the fact that there's "9/6" on the floor.)

------

Again, kudos go to Borgata in introducing such an exceptional
inventory. But Dancer's influence creates a desirable demand, one
that ultimately should carry over to other AC casinos and we'll find
them gritting their teeth a whole lot more than in past years. I look
forward to the prospect that Dancer's AC classes will expand beyond
just Jacks.

No doubt my inclinations are self-motivated here. However, not too
long ago at another casino, I found myself strongly inclined to assist
a wheel-chaired woman, who had shut down one of a limited number of $1
9/6's for 4 hours out of 6, with a speedy ride off a nearby pier. I'm
not too proud of that and I look to increased demand to ultimately
expand that meager machine selection. I'll be cheering if Dancer's
appearances at Borgata are lengthened to more days.

FWIW.

- Harry

#3

Harry Porter wrote:

vpFREE wrote:
> Voting to determine the 2004 inductee into the vpFREE VIDEO POKER
> HALL OF FAME will take place between 17 JUL and 31 JUL.

In what is surely an egotistical gesture ;), I'm setting forward my
selection for this poll and rationale.

Snipped Harry's endorsement

Does this mean the start of campaigning? :wink:

Cheers.

Bill

#4

Snipped Harry's endorsement

Does this mean the start of campaigning? :wink:

Yep.

Evaluations, such as Harry submitted are very
appropriate.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 16 Jul 2004 at 0:13, Bill Velek wrote:

#5

vpFREE wrote:

> Snipped Harry's endorsement

> Does this mean the start of campaigning? :wink:

Yep.

Evaluations, such as Harry submitted are very
appropriate.

I never meant to imply that they weren't. The smiley was because I found it rather amusing to think of any campaigning here in contrast to what we typically see in U.S. national (and local) politics. I think it's great for people to be informed of how much some folks have contributed to video poker; of course, on the other hand, people who don't really know what each nominee has done and who simply vote for someone because that nominee has been endorsed by a popular member of this group, just turns the poll into a less meaningful popularity contest.

But just to add some balance here so that Harry's endorsement of Bob Dancer isn't the only endorsement, I'm impressed by the work that Mike Shackleford has done as the Wizard of Odds -- his site is awesome and extremely useful, and while I'm sure he probably sells some product there, commercialism definitely takes a back door to all the free information. In fact, I just took a look at his site and I couldn't find any "products" page after a quick, but good, hard look. I'm sure I probably just missed it, but that's my point. I'm sure that Bob Dancer is probably as generous with his advice, as well, but for some reason I sense a more commercial interest there. Jean Scott is also very helpful on this board, and I like her a lot, and I'm not bothered by the fact that she sells books, nor do I feel that she tries to overly commercialize her posts, but the point I guess I'm making is that I think that just about everyone on this board knows that Bob Dancer sells books and strategy cards, and also knows that Jean Scott sells books and strategy software (Frugal V.P.), but I can't say with absolute _certainty_ that Mike Shackleford sells _anything_; for all I know, he makes nothing from his website, or possibly he makes a small amount from advertising space he sells there. And then we consider the amount of info that is freely given by Mike Shackleford in comparison with either Bob Dancer or Jean Scott, I'd have to vote hands down for Mike if that was the only consideration. In fact, I think that the Wizard of Odds site, although it is not strictly video poker, is completely unmatched in that category.

Now, am I suggesting that Mike Shackleford deserves to be the inductee over each and everyone of the others? No; not really, because there are several nominees whom I just don't know that much about, and therefore I can't honestly say that Mike deserves the honor more than they do. So in that sense, I guess we really do need some sort of campaigning to help some of us, like myself, understand how much so many people have contributed.

By the way, I don't know Mike Shackleford, have never met him, and as far as I know I've never even exchanged posts with him on vpFree or elsewhere (if he posts here, I presume he uses a pen name).

Just my two cents. Cheers.

Bill Velek

···

On 16 Jul 2004 at 0:13, Bill Velek wrote:

#6

Re: Bill Velek's comments concerning commercial interest as it relates
to the HOF candidates

What I want to note is that for last year's inductee, Dan Paymar, I
found the most compelling argument for HOF inclusion was his book, VP
- Optimum Play. It's the most valuable resource of any printed VP
material I've encountered. While of greatest benefit to the
intermediate player, in one compact volume there are sections that
were of great use to me at each step as I became more proficient, from
novice player to advanced.

My point is that I'm inclined to consider commecial efforts equally
strongly as non-commercial. It's what they add to the community
that's key.

- Harry

#7

<<In fact, I just took a look at his site and I couldn't
find any "products" page after a quick, but good, hard look.>>

This is not Mike Shackleford's fault. He has had a book into Huntington Press for over 2 years - perhaps even 3 - I've lost track. But I think the wait is almost over - I believe he has a book coming out this summer - and I, for one, am really looking forward to it. Mike really knows his stuff - and I agree that his Web site is one of the most helpful ones. I go there whenever I have a math question about any casino game.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

Jean - I think you're out of touch.
Having no products to hawk was a PLUS, not a FAULT! Geez!
                     
I'm sure many of us will buy his book: kind of a "talks least, says most" thing....
      ~Mark

--- "Jean Scott" wrote:

<<In fact, I just took a look at his site and I couldn't
find any "products" page after a quick, but good, hard look.>>

This is not Mike Shackleford's fault. ....- I believe he has a book coming out this

summer - and I, for one, am really looking forward to it.

#9

<<Jean - I think you're out of touch.
Having no products to hawk was a PLUS, not a FAULT! Geez!>>

I'm not out of touch - I am so busy I sometimes write fast and don't adequately convey my real meaning.

Mike and I are good friends - and he has been very frustrated, and right so, that his book has been taking so long to be published. As a fellow writer I understand his frustration only too well - and I rejoice with him that his book will be coming out soon - PROBABLY!

I must say I do not understand the point of view that someone who doesn't sell something is somehow more "faultless" than someone who spends thousands and thousands of hours struggling to put words together into a book that will be helpful to thousands of people. That Mike didn't have a book to "hawk" was not a "plus" to me. He has much information to share and I look forward to his book with even more information. Anyone who gives a lot of information and help out on the Internet for free and I have benefited from this help - I look forward to their sharing even more in a book that I can have in my hands and enjoy and refer to many times. If they don't desire to write a book, however, I am grateful for what they do share on the Internet.

···

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards and for the
  Frugal series of books.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

I empathize and didn't want to join the product-seller bashers
myself. I hope to publish someday too, I'd rather write fiction tho'
and I have no idea how or if I'd self-promote.

But your note DID miss the previous poster's point, just thought I'd
respond with a tease.

Good that you appreciate the power of words, better that you write
carefully. Some people hang on every word, (scary!) and without
facial expressions here on-line, all we have is the words. I wish
everyone was a better writer, we'd be able to communicate better, eh?

Taken to an extreme, maybe we should sell our trip reports to Skip
Hughes!

I think Tom has got the right idea of how to use the internet with
vpFree, it's a collective and we CAN share freely and thousands of us
do. Everybody likes Mike's site too.

I guess we all have our role to play.....
~MARK

<<Jean - I think you're out of touch.
Having no products to hawk was a PLUS, not a FAULT! Geez!>>

I'm not out of touch - I am so busy I sometimes write fast and

don't adequately convey my real meaning.

Mike and I are good friends - and he has been very frustrated, and

right so, that his book has been taking so long to be published. As
a fellow writer I understand his frustration only too well - and I
rejoice with him that his book will be coming out soon - PROBABLY!

I must say I do not understand the point of view that someone who

doesn't sell something is somehow more "faultless" than someone who
spends thousands and thousands of hours struggling to put words
together into a book that will be helpful to thousands of people.
That Mike didn't have a book to "hawk" was not a "plus" to me. He
has much information to share and I look forward to his book with
even more information. Anyone who gives a lot of information and
help out on the Internet for free and I have benefited from this
help - I look forward to their sharing even more in a book that I can
have in my hands and enjoy and refer to many times. If they don't
desire to write a book, however, I am grateful for what they do share
on the Internet.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote: