vpFREE2 Forums

No Spoil with This Royal

#1

Was in Vegas last week and wanted to share a little story with you. I hit a couple of Royals the first two days. Stayed at the Golden Nugget downtown. On my first night I noticed the Progressive for Jacks or Better at Claudes bar was at $1070.00, as I scanned the different machines trying to pick one that I thought could be lucky when I noticed something very strange. One of the machines at the far end of the bar for Jacks or Better showed a progressive amount as $1747.37, so I doubled checked all the other bar Machines and they all had the lower posted amount. So I figured this was a no brainer so I quickly sat down and started hammering away at the buttons. After about 15 minutes of play I noticed that the progressive amount had not moved even a penny while the big bar displayed a continually changing amount but still a lot lower than my machine showed. Then it happpened, got dealt 4 diamonds to the Royal, needed the Queen, I touched the deal/Draw button very slow and softly and BANG! there it was in all its glory the Beautiful Queen of Diamonds.

I was obviously happy at my good fortune but a little concerned and worried that there may be some controversy about what the final payout would be. I was surprised when the attendant arrived to tell me that they were obligated to pay what was showing on the screen. The funny part was that the scrolling screen above the bar was announcing that there was a Royal progressive winner on Machine 4700 for a total win of $1073.80. After 30 minutes out came the hand pay for the full amount $1748 minus the tax which was a whopping $524. The attendant then cleared the machine and asked me to play one hand which I did and the same jackpot of $1747.37 was sill embeded on the screen, a call for a technician was quickly made and they were there in a flash. As he was resetting the machine he mumbled that if I hit a Royal that there was no way I would be getting that amount. My lips were sealed. What a start to the trip. I hit an uneventful Royal at Bally's the next night but again very happy at my luck.

Shortly afterwards after being showered with dollar bills don't I walk into a heavy downpour at the Crap tables pit just outside the Gold Tower elevators but this time it was real water pouring from the sky causing all the pit bosses and crew scurrying for cover. See the video here. https://youtu.be/Kg_RGp6mA5k

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#2

the Progressive for Jacks or Better at Claudes bar was at $1070.00, as I scanned the different machines trying to pick one that I thought could be lucky when I noticed something very strange. One of the machines at the far end of the bar for Jacks or Better showed a progressive amount as $1747.37

Meters freeze like that occasionally. I hit a progressive jackpot at
the Frontier a few seconds after someone else did. It was such a
small interval that the higher amount showed on my screen. They
wanted to pay me the lesser amount. One time, in Atlantic City, I was
playing a Joker's Wild progressive. The progressive was for 5 of a
kind. I was dealt 4 of a kind. 2 friends were with me. I made it a
little dramatic as I delayed hitting the "draw" button. Before I did,
I heard a buzzer go off a few machines away. They paid us both the
higher amount.

#3

sinceregambler wrote: "After 30 minutes out came the hand pay for the full amount $1748 minus the tax which was a whopping $524."

Tax? You don't have a US Social Security number so they agreed to pay you minus a withheld tax? You had to show them your passport?

Normally there is no tax withheld in Nevada unless you request it or refuse to disclose your tax ID number.

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#4

.............no choice when you're Canadian .......Vegas trips may be a
thing of the past with a 70 cent dollar and a IRS that not only gouges us
but also holds back our refunds when we file. I had a some winning from
February 2014, filed in January 2015 and I am being told (Because I'm
outside the US) I will have to wait a minimum of 9 months. There is just no
incentive to coming down anymore. It will be even worse when the tax limit
is dropped down to $600 on winnings.

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 3:06 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No Spoil with This Royal

sinceregambler wrote: "After 30 minutes out came the hand pay for the full
amount $1748 minus the tax which was a whopping $524."

Tax? You don't have a US Social Security number so they agreed to pay you
minus a withheld tax? You had to show them your passport?

Normally there is no tax withheld in Nevada unless you request it or refuse
to disclose your tax ID number.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

Chris wrote: "no choice when you're Canadian"

Can't you get a tax id number and one of those new no-doc California licenses?

In Vegas pretty much everything is negotiable. Like that line from that movie: "Well, technically, I'm an escort."

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#6

The IRS nixed the idea of dropping the threshhold down to $600.

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#7

As a Canadian, I have a tax id number from prior years.
They still deduct witholdings. .
For this reason I could never play for high stakes. Every time a hand-pay is hit they would deduct 30% of the win. Wouldn't take too long before the bankroll has disappeared into witholdings.
Wouldn't see the refund for many, many months. You would effectively be giving Uncle Sam an interest-free loan.

···

From: "nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com [vpFREE]" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 4:01 PM
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: No Spoil with This Royal
   
Chris wrote: "no choice when you're Canadian"

Can't you get a tax id number and one of those new no-doc California licenses?

In Vegas pretty much everything is negotiable. Like that line from that movie: "Well, technically, I'm an escort."

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#8

I had been anxiously awaiting news on this but you are the first one to say anything. I can't find an article on it, do you have a link? Does anyone have a link? Great news, though.

---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <mickeycrimm@...> wrote :

The IRS nixed the idea of dropping the threshhold down to $600.

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#9

BLavoie wrote: "As a Canadian, I have a tax id number from prior years. They still deduct witholdings."

I see a stateside drivers license in your future.

Also, no gambling tax in Canada, am I right eh?

Plus unrestricted online gambling.

Must be tough.

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#10

Brian wrote: As a Canadian, I have a tax id number from prior years.

They still deduct witholdings. .

For this reason I could never play for high stakes. Every time a
hand-pay is hit they would deduct 30% of the win. Wouldn't take too long
before the bankroll has disappeared into witholdings.

Wouldn't see the refund for many, many months. You would effectively be giving Uncle Sam an interest-free loan.
  
      I can see objecting to an "interest free loan" being a gut-level "principle of the thing" reaction, but in practice, interest rates are so low it's pretty negligible.

Insofar as the 30% of W2G amount goes, yes that would require a loan to the US for a half-year on average --- but you get it back. It's a factor to consider bankroll-wise, but it doesn't have to be a showstopper. By the time your bankroll is getting small from this year's withholdings, you're getting your refund check from last year! In a way, it's a forced savings account.

If the games were good enough (big if!), this could be managed easily enough

Bob

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#11

Iguana wrote "no gambling tax in Canada, am I right eh?
- Correct - no paperwork on wins, no reporting at tax time.
- That's speaking as a recreational player.
- Can't speak for professional gamblers. Hypothetically they could file an Income Statement and show gambling income as well as related expenses.

"Plus unrestricted online gambling"
- I don't go there, but am unaware of any.
.

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#12

Bob Dancer wrote: "Insofar as the 30% of W2G amount goes, yes that would require a loan to the US for a half-year on average --- but you get it back. It's a factor to consider bankroll-wise, but it doesn't have to be a showstopper. By the time your bankroll is getting small from this year's withholdings, you're getting your refund check from last year! In a way, it's a forced savings account.If the games were good enough (big if!), this could be managed easily enough".
You're missing the point Bob.
Your reasoning is fine for the occasional $4,000 royal, but if I were playing a $10 game, every quad or better would shrink my available bankroll.

ie - JB6-9, 900 hph, 8 hrs / day = approx 16 quads / day at (30% of $1,250) = $6,000 daily witholdings!
Add in SF and RF hits, or higher quad payouts (BDLX, DB, DDB) and it would shrink by $10k / day.
At that rate a week in Vegas would force me to loan the taxman $70,000.
Now run the numbers for a $100 video poker game. See what I mean?

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#13

Your reasoning is fine for the occasional $4,000 royal, but if I were
playing a $10 game, every quad or better would shrink my available
bankroll.

so don't play $10 video poker full time.

But there are plays with more occasional W2Gs. $1 or $2 Ten Play might accomplish that.

There's a difference between playing $10 video poker full time and playing games in the high limit room occasionally if the overall opportunity adds up.

If you want to make something work, you find ways to minimize the problems. If you want to prove to yourself that your original logic was correct, you find cases where it would be.

As to your personal final decision, I really don't care. You're a smart guy and you bear the consequences of your actions --- good and bad. I have no horse in that race. But I still believe the 30% withholding doesn't have to be a show-stopper if you don't want it to be.

Bob
                 
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#14

Bob wrote: "But I still believe the 30% withholding doesn't have to be a show-stopper if you don't want it to be."

I've heard some people do this as a way to protect themselves from identity theft.

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#15

Bobbartop, I'm drawing a blank as to where I folliwed rule change issue. It may have been change.org. I msy have signed a petition against the rule change. I know that the proposef rule change brought about 14,000 negative comments on the IRS website.

The hearing was on June 17th and the casino industry came out in force against the rule change even arguing that it should be raised to $4700 to account for inflation.

Another argument that was put uo was all the machine downtime would cause a loss in state revenue. My cynical mind says this was the clencher for the bureaucrats. God forbid that a government agency would suffer a loss in revenue.

I read the IRS dropped the proposal the next day. I just can't remember where I read it.

#16

That's great, Mickey. Too bad they didn't consider raising the amount, but we knew THAT wasn't going to happen. lol I'll try to remember to look for something also and if I find a link I'll post it. Thanks for the good news.

---In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <mickeycrimm@...> wrote :

Bobbartop, I'm drawing a blank as to where I folliwed rule change issue. It may have been change.org. I msy have signed a petition against the rule change. I know that the proposef rule change brought about 14,000 negative comments on the IRS website.

The hearing was on June 17th and the casino industry came out in force against the rule change even arguing that it should be raised to $4700 to account for inflation.

Another argument that was put uo was all the machine downtime would cause a loss in state revenue. My cynical mind says this was the clencher for the bureaucrats. God forbid that a government agency would suffer a loss in revenue.

I read the IRS dropped the proposal the next day. I just can't remember where I read it.

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