First it was $12.00 coin-in for 3 cashback points on FP machines. Then they added that you cannot use any cashback credits on FP machines. Now they are eliminating rollover credits. Pretty soon we can expect them to institute a cover charge before allowing you to enter one of their properties. Clearly they have little interest in keeping their patrons. So much for "We Love Locals."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mohegan Sun in CT has gone through a similar series of anti-customer steps. Now that I recall, the very first step was a cut in the theo rate. That consequently cut off many customers from achieving their highest level, which was by invitation only, after you had gotten to their 2nd level and continued to rack up points. As I remember the numbers, you needed 1600 points to get the 2nd level, and at about 4500-4800 you had a very good shot at the ultimate level. So once everyone figured out that the points between 1601 and whatever number had become worthless for tier level, most people just stopped playing there after reaching 1600.
Sounds like points above that needed for tier level have become worthless since they can't be rolled over. So why bother playing after you reach the magic number?
Oh when will they ever learn: once you devalue something people won't bother earning it any more, which just means reduced play for the casino.
Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein
________________________________
First it was $12.00 coin-in for 3 cashback points on FP machines. Then they added that you cannot use any cashback credits on FP machines. Now they are eliminating rollover credits. Pretty soon we can expect them to institute a cover charge before allowing you to enter one of their properties. Clearly they have little interest in keeping their patrons. So much for "We Love Locals."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Massy Cimini <ics.captain@...> wrote:
First it was $12.00 coin-in for 3 cashback points on FP machines. Then they added that you cannot use any cashback credits on FP machines. Now they are eliminating rollover credits. Pretty soon we can expect them to institute a cover charge before allowing you to enter one of their properties. Clearly they have little interest in keeping their patrons. So much for "We Love Locals."
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
9/6 DDB is by defintion full pay. It's not a positive game by any means but it is the best variant of the game that can be found in any quantity.
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: Dave <haaljo@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:43:17 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It's true that 9/6 DDB is indeed still considered full pay, even tho the 10/6 version has been around for a while now, and (in LAS anyway) is only about 30% harder to find than its 9/6 cousin. (VPfree2 lists 68 Vegas locations where you can find 9/6, 48 where 10/6 is available.)
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:
9/6 DDB is by defintion full pay. It's not a positive game by any means but it is the best variant of the game that can be found in any quantity.
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: Dave <haaljo@...>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:43:17 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
True enough, but the quantity of the FP version in LV is way higher, and there are only 3 instances of 10/6 reported anywhere else in North America. We have to remember that this isn't a Las Vegas forum, it's a video poker forum. One other thing that should be noted is that in many if not all locations that have 10/6 DDB the comps and cashback/bounceback, would be greatly reduced if you play these machines.
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: jaywilly240 <wha724@comcast.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:00:10 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
It's true that 9/6 DDB is indeed still considered full pay, even tho the 10/6 version has been around for a while now, and (in LAS anyway) is only about 30% harder to find than its 9/6 cousin. (VPfree2 lists 68 Vegas locations where you can find 9/6, 48 where 10/6 is available.)
--- In mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:
9/6 DDB is by defintion full pay. It's not a positive game by any means but it is the best variant of the game that can be found in any quantity.
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: Dave <haaljo@...>
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:43:17 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As Ed McMahon (or maybe Ed impersonators) used to say: You are correct sir. I guess what I was trying to get at is that when we say "full pay", we really mean "traditional full pay."
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:
True enough, but the quantity of the FP version in LV is way higher, and there are only 3 instances of 10/6 reported anywhere else in North America. We have to remember that this isn't a Las Vegas forum, it's a video poker forum. One other thing that should be noted is that in many if not all locations that have 10/6 DDB the comps and cashback/bounceback, would be greatly reduced if you play these machines.
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: jaywilly240 <wha724@...>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:00:10 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....It's true that 9/6 DDB is indeed still considered full pay, even tho the 10/6 version has been around for a while now, and (in LAS anyway) is only about 30% harder to find than its 9/6 cousin. (VPfree2 lists 68 Vegas locations where you can find 9/6, 48 where 10/6 is available.)
--- In mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@> wrote:
>
> 9/6 DDB is by defintion full pay. It's not a positive game by any means but it is the best variant of the game that can be found in any quantity.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> A.P.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave <haaljo@>
> To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:43:17 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
>
>
> Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We can drop the subject now because we both know what we mean. One suggestion I would like to give you is to use the term positive game instead of full pay when you are talking about games that are over %100 instead of invoking a new term such as traditional full pay. Everyone agrees on what a positive game is I think, unless we get into what factors may be added into the base game that may make it positive i.e. double points etc..
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: jaywilly240 <wha724@comcast.net>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:05:57 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
As Ed McMahon (or maybe Ed impersonators) used to say: You are correct sir. I guess what I was trying to get at is that when we say "full pay", we really mean "traditional full pay."
--- In mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:
True enough, but the quantity of the FP version in LV is way higher, and there are only 3 instances of 10/6 reported anywhere else in North America. We have to remember that this isn't a Las Vegas forum, it's a video poker forum. One other thing that should be noted is that in many if not all locations that have 10/6 DDB the comps and cashback/bounceback, would be greatly reduced if you play these machines.
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: jaywilly240 <wha724@...>
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:00:10 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....It's true that 9/6 DDB is indeed still considered full pay, even tho the 10/6 version has been around for a while now, and (in LAS anyway) is only about 30% harder to find than its 9/6 cousin. (VPfree2 lists 68 Vegas locations where you can find 9/6, 48 where 10/6 is available.)
--- In mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@> wrote:
>
> 9/6 DDB is by defintion full pay. It's not a positive game by any means but it is the best variant of the game that can be found in any quantity.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> A.P.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave <haaljo@>
> To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:43:17 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
>
>
> Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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In the past I think we referred to common or “standard” schedules, like 9/6 JoB and 9/6 DDB, as “full pay,” even though they were below 100%. Full pay didn’t always mean positive. I made that point back in 1998 in the original version of The Frugal Gambler. Then when a schedule came up later that upped these common schedules we called them “super pay” or something similar, like 10/6 DDB.
VP has involved over the years so the names we started off weren’t always accurate but they became “standard.” 9/6 JoB will probably always be considered “full pay.” Same with 9/6 DDB. I wouldn’t quibble with someone who used these terms.
Of course if you are discussing returns, especially with a newbie player, it might be clearer if you stuck with “technical” terms – “positive” and “negative.” A newbie might mistakenly assume that a “full pay” game is always “positive.”
------------------------------------------
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/
From: Albert Pearson
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:42 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
We can drop the subject now because we both know what we mean. One suggestion I would like to give you is to use the term positive game instead of full pay when you are talking about games that are over %100 instead of invoking a new term such as traditional full pay. Everyone agrees on what a positive game is I think, unless we get into what factors may be added into the base game that may make it positive i.e. double points etc..
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: jaywilly240 <mailto:wha724%40comcast.net>
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 11:05:57 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
As Ed McMahon (or maybe Ed impersonators) used to say: You are correct sir. I guess what I was trying to get at is that when we say "full pay", we really mean "traditional full pay."
--- In mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@...> wrote:
True enough, but the quantity of the FP version in LV is way higher, and there are only 3 instances of 10/6 reported anywhere else in North America. We have to remember that this isn't a Las Vegas forum, it's a video poker forum. One other thing that should be noted is that in many if not all locations that have 10/6 DDB the comps and cashback/bounceback, would be greatly reduced if you play these machines.
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: jaywilly240 <wha724@...>
To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:00:10 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....It's true that 9/6 DDB is indeed still considered full pay, even tho the 10/6 version has been around for a while now, and (in LAS anyway) is only about 30% harder to find than its 9/6 cousin. (VPfree2 lists 68 Vegas locations where you can find 9/6, 48 where 10/6 is available.)
--- In mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com, Albert Pearson <ehpee@> wrote:
>
> 9/6 DDB is by defintion full pay. It's not a positive game by any means but it is the best variant of the game that can be found in any quantity.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> A.P.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dave <haaljo@>
> To: mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:43:17 PM
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
>
>
> Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I saw 10/6 DDB at Harrah's Council Bluff's in Iowa a few months ago. It was in the data base. But I was there visiting friend's. I wouldn't advise going there unless you have a real good reason.
Ned C.
The Wild Joker
________________________________
From: Albert Pearson <ehpee@rogers.com>
To: "vpFREE@yahoogroups.com" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
9/6 DDB is by defintion full pay. It's not a positive game by any means but it is the best variant of the game that can be found in any quantity.
Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: Dave <haaljo@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:43:17 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
VP free only lists 15 casinos in all Las Vegas that have positive versions of 10/6 ddb. Most of these are at Stations Casinos that currently give few benefits for playing ( $4 is 1 point ).
----- Original Message ----- From: "jaywilly240" <wha724@comcast.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 2:00 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....
It's true that 9/6 DDB is indeed still considered full pay, even tho the 10/6 version has been around for a while now, and (in LAS anyway) is only about 30% harder to find than its 9/6 cousin. (VPfree2 lists 68 Vegas locations where you can find 9/6, 48 where 10/6 is available.)
Us "old guard/Skip Hughes" groupies also characterize 8/5 BP (at a mere 99.17) as "full pay." "Full pay" to us means best pay table available for a particular game.
Just wondering why you didnt like Council Bluffs Just so everyone knows they do have 10/6 ddb with the shorted sf but they do have Great rooms, Captains Table for 50 pts if your not diamond and over all it is different but a great stop over for any trip! and it also has a bank with a progressive meter same pay off just curious why you didnt advise it Thanks !
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, The Wild Joker <jokerswild1203@...> wrote:
  I saw 10/6 DDB at Harrah's Council Bluff's in Iowa a few months ago. It was in the data base. But I was there visiting friend's. I wouldn't advise going there unless you have a real good reason.
Ned C.
The Wild Joker________________________________
From: Albert Pearson <ehpee@...>
To: "vpFREE@yahoogroups.com" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....Â
9/6 DDB is by defintion full pay. It's not a positive game by any means but it is the best variant of the game that can be found in any quantity.Regards
A.P.
________________________________
From: Dave <haaljo@...>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:43:17 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: No more Stations rollover credits....Â
Just games over 100% E.V. but not all FP machines as plenty of 99.5%+ E.V. paytables. Nowadays, lot's of gamblers call 9/6 DDB full pay..
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]