vpFREE2 Forums

Newbie Needs Help

I'm going to Las Vegas next week. We're staying at The Orleans. I
usually play Blackjack, playing basic strategy.

This trip I'd like to play some VP. I purchased winpoker, and I've
played quite a bit on the computer.

So here's my stupid question: Which game is easiest to learn to play
perfectly? I need to start practicing in earnest. Also, which game
will provide me with the lowest volidity? I haven't much of a
bankroll, just a few hundred bucks.

Thanks for any help.

Kurt
Flower Mound, Tx

Hi Aeb, I am trying the same thing, I have been practicing JOB 9/6 every spare minute accept I am going to A/C. My wife is warning me about being overconfident. I'LL let you know how I did.

aebikurt <aebikurt@yahoo.com> wrote: I'm going to Las Vegas next week. We're staying at The Orleans. I
usually play Blackjack, playing basic strategy.

This trip I'd like to play some VP. I purchased winpoker, and I've
played quite a bit on the computer.

So here's my stupid question: Which game is easiest to learn to play
perfectly? I need to start practicing in earnest. Also, which game
will provide me with the lowest volidity? I haven't much of a
bankroll, just a few hundred bucks.

Thanks for any help.

Kurt
Flower Mound, Tx

···

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This is a tough question and one that could have many answers.
I'll attempt to give you most of them.

What game is easiest to play perfectly...
Easy answer.... Pick-em by a big margin.
Problem is the game is hard to find in full pay format.
2nd problem is that it is not at the Orleans.

Lowest Volatility.
Pick-em is again the winner but is really more volatile than it looks,
in the short run you can get destroyed quickly if you don't hit a quad or any of the other premium hands, straights, flushes , full houses.
The best low volatility games at the Orleans are 8/5 bonus and NSUD, your bankroll may be inadequate for these games at the quarter level,
you may want to consider 9/7 db in triple play nickels, it is more volatile and harder to learn, but it is probably one of the better games for your bankroll.
I would suggest you try each of these games on winpoker and see which one of them you enjoy playing the most, and then go with that one.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "aebikurt" <aebikurt@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 11:17 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Newbie Needs Help

I'm going to Las Vegas next week. We're staying at The Orleans.
So here's my stupid question: Which game is easiest to learn to play
perfectly? I need to start practicing in earnest. Also, which game
will provide me with the lowest volidity? I haven't much of a
bankroll, just a few hundred bucks.

So here's my stupid question: Which game is easiest to learn to

play

perfectly? I need to start practicing in earnest. Also, which game
will provide me with the lowest volidity? I haven't much of a
bankroll, just a few hundred bucks.

Thanks for any help.

Kurt
Flower Mound, Tx

Jacks or better is the game that many start with. It is found
commonly across the country, has relatively low volatility and is
comparatively easy to learn to play well. Full pay and without prog
or slot benefits it is a 99.5% game.

Chandler

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "aebikurt" <aebikurt@...> wrote:

Blackjack. Get a stragety card (available free at www.wizardofodds.com), print it out and have it laminated at Office Depot for a buck.
   
  What you have to watch out for are the table setting (allowing surender, double after spliting, dealer hitting of soft 17's, all bad) but especially stay away from and 6:5 table.
   
  What really gets to be fun is to be at a table where everyone is hooting and hollering. My wife and I got on one at the MGM last year and had a blast (won some money also)
   
  Video Poker is more of a quiet game. Play slowly at first and look at all the cards before you press DEAL.
   
  Chet Klyn
  (From the Wynn on vacation)

···

aebikurt <aebikurt@yahoo.com> wrote:
          I'm going to Las Vegas next week. We're staying at The Orleans. I
usually play Blackjack, playing basic strategy.

This trip I'd like to play some VP. I purchased winpoker, and I've
played quite a bit on the computer.

So here's my stupid question: Which game is easiest to learn to play
perfectly? I need to start practicing in earnest. Also, which game
will provide me with the lowest volidity? I haven't much of a
bankroll, just a few hundred bucks.

Thanks for any help.

Kurt
Flower Mound, Tx

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I would suggest learning the 9/6 JoB strategy. This game has a very
low volatility and is fairly easy to learn. As mentioned in a previous
post this game is not available at The Orleans (much to my chagrin as
well). You can take the shuttle over to The Gold Coast (sister casino
of the Orleans) where there is an abundant supply of thses machines.

Godd Luck!

The term Full Pay is routinely used on this forum. I guess all the
veterans know what it means for various games. And it is different
for different games.

However, for the benefit of the newcomers, and at least when
answering a question from one such, it would be good to spell it out.
Is there a table in teh files section which spells out what is Full
Pay for different games?

Or is it one of those things - If you don't know what it is, you have
no business to be on this forum?

I have heard of 8/5 through 10/7 versions of Jacks or Better.

A question. Given two machines with the same game, and with the same
pay table, can one be "looser" than the other? Admitting the
possibility that one can be a loser even on a looser machine.

A Myth

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cmayhem2001" <omnibibulous1@...>
wrote:

> So here's my stupid question: Which game is easiest to learn to
play
> perfectly? I need to start practicing in earnest. Also, which

game

> will provide me with the lowest volidity? I haven't much of a
> bankroll, just a few hundred bucks.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Kurt
> Flower Mound, Tx
>

Jacks or better is the game that many start with. It is found
commonly across the country, has relatively low volatility and is
comparatively easy to learn to play well. Full pay and without

prog

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "aebikurt" <aebikurt@> wrote:
or slot benefits it is a 99.5% game.

Chandler

Yes! "vpFREE's VP Pay Tables" has it all.

1. Go to the vpFREE home page
2. Click on "VP Pay Tables"
3. Click on "vpFREE's VP Pay Tables"

and you are there!

......bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Adams Myth" <Adams_Myth@...> wrote:

Is there a table in teh files section which spells out what is Full
Pay for different games?

The short answer is No.
The long answer is ...
In the short run any machine can be running hot or cold. This is a function/characteristic of randomness, however, this can not be predetermined nor can the length of these streaks be determined. i.e. you can never tell when you are going to get lucky.
In the long run both of these machines will pay the same amount.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Adams Myth" <Adams_Myth@HotMail.Com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Newbie Needs Help

A question. Given two machines with the same game, and with the same
pay table, can one be "looser" than the other? Admitting the
possibility that one can be a loser even on a looser machine.

A Myth

Re: Newbie Needs Help

I did mean in the "long run", though I didn't say that. Of course, in
the long run, we will all be dead!

So what exactly is meant by a "looser" machine? The one with a better
pay table?

Sorry if I am asking sophomoric questions.

A Myth

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Albert Pearson" <a-p@...> wrote:

The short answer is No.
The long answer is ...

In the long run both of these machines will pay the same amount.

I've seen "looser" used to refer to a better vp pay table, but
I associate it more with slot machines that have a higher
pay out percentage.

vpFae

···

On 17 Jul 2006 at 22:54, Adams Myth wrote:

So what exactly is meant by a "looser" machine? The one with a
better pay table?

Aha!

I am associating a pay table with a pay out percentage.

Is it possible to have two machines with the same pay table, but
different pay out percentages? (Of course I mean the same game)

A Myth

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFae6128305" <vpfae6128305@...> wrote:

On 17 Jul 2006 at 22:54, Adams Myth wrote:

> So what exactly is meant by a "looser" machine? The one with a
> better pay table?

I've seen "looser" used to refer to a better vp pay table, but
I associate it more with slot machines that have a higher
pay out percentage.

vpFae

in "honest" VP, the pay table DEFINES the "payout".

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Adams Myth" <Adams_Myth@...> wrote:

Aha!

I am associating a pay table with a pay out percentage.

Is it possible to have two machines with the same pay table, but
different pay out percentages? (Of course I mean the same game)

A Myth

www.wizardofodds.com), print it out and have it laminated at Office
Depot for a buck.

I love mankind, it's people that scream and rant after a $5 win a
blackjack that I can't stand. Besides, blackjack is rarely positive
without counting and usually you don't get the benefit of a slot club.
I'd stick with FPDW.

dipy911

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, chet Klyn <chetkl@...> wrote:

Blackjack. Get a stragety card (available free at

I think you need to define what you mean by "looser" "pay table" and
"pay out percentage" before you can get a truly meaningful answer.
Especially give the period of time you are considering. Over the
course of an hour? A day? A month? The machine's lifetime? Yours?

The longer you go out in time, the more precise any answers will be.

- John

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Adams Myth" <Adams_Myth@...> wrote:

Aha!
I am associating a pay table with a pay out percentage.
Is it possible to have two machines with the same pay table, but
different pay out percentages? (Of course I mean the same game)

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vpFae6128305" <vpfae6128305@> wrote:
> On 17 Jul 2006 at 22:54, Adams Myth wrote:
> > So what exactly is meant by a "looser" machine? The one with a
> > better pay table?
>
> I've seen "looser" used to refer to a better vp pay table, but
> I associate it more with slot machines that have a higher
> pay out percentage.
>
> vpFae
>

I didn't know if your response is directed at me, or vpFae6128305

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@...> wrote:>
The longer you go out in time, the more precise any answers will be.

Fair enough.

I think you need to define what you mean by "looser" "pay table" and
"pay out percentage" before you can get a truly meaningful answer

I don't have an exact of idea of these terms myself. I ahve seen
these terms being used here, and in VP articles.

Go ahead and give your own definition, assume a time period, and
provide an answer. And then, say what happens when the time period
gets longer or shorter.

Someone suggested I should read the archives of this forum, to see if
all of these have been discussed already. Perhaps they are. Perhaps a
fresh answer may provide a different perspective. Perhaps I am lazy
to wade through couple of years of mails, with several layers of
quoted texts, to find a kernel of information.

A Myth

My wife and I played for 5 hours yesterday afternoon at the MGM on a $5 table, I broke even (even with tipping the dealer and cocktail waitress), the wife was up $100. The pit boss gave us 2 buffets ($56) comp. I'd say we were ahead, especially in the fun factor.
  I come to Vegas for fun and relaxation. I realize I'm not going to break their bank but hope to come out a little ahead in the money department and a lot in the fun end.
   
  Don't put down a game that has almost the same payback as 9-6 JOB. (BTW, could not find anything better than 8-5 at MGM, that's why we played BJ)
   
  Chet Klyn

Blackjack. Get a stragety card (available free at

www.wizardofodds.com), print it out and have it laminated at Office
Depot for a buck.

I love mankind, it's people that scream and rant after a $5 win a
blackjack that I can't stand. Besides, blackjack is rarely positive
without counting and usually you don't get the benefit of a slot club.
I'd stick with FPDW.

dipy911

···

dipy911 <dipy911@yahoo.com> wrote:
          --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, chet Klyn <chetkl@...> wrote:

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

While I agree with vpFae that the term is most commonly used in the context of slots, I use the terms "loose machine" and "hot machine" when casino staff is around and I want them to think that I'm an unsophisticated player. I use these terms to refer to the ER relative to the ER of other machines in the casino.
   
  Lainie

···

vpFae6128305 <vpfae6128305@Cox.net> wrote:
  On 17 Jul 2006 at 22:54, Adams Myth wrote:

So what exactly is meant by a "looser" machine? The one with a
better pay table?

I've seen "looser" used to refer to a better vp pay table, but
I associate it more with slot machines that have a higher
pay out percentage.

vpFae

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

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This is tricky, since some of these terms seem to have multiple
meanings, even to the same person. The easiest term is the paytable.
Assuming a good, fair RNG, the pay table uniquely identifies the
long-term payout of a machine, assuming perfect play.

"Loose" is more subjective. I think marketing departments define
loose based on the long-term payouts, which are the programmed
percentages, and are generally applied to slots. Claims such as "our
slots are 22% looser than the competition" indicate a higher
programmed payback than the industry average. However, if a player
claims to have played a loose machine, it almost always means he won
on it during the last session (unless he has some inside information
as to the programmed payout of the machine).

When applied to VP, it could mean the relative EV of a machine
assuming perfect play, or it could mean how the machine behaved the
last time it was played.

Similarly, pay out percentage probably means the long-term or
programmed payouts, although someone could be referring to how well
the machine behaved on their last outing.

Because of this, it is probably best to avoid terms such as loose or
pay out percentage (and I guess I should listen to my own advice) and
stick with better-defined terms (expected return or expected value,
although the use of "expected" is also problematic).

How is that for a long-winded nothing (non)answer?

- John

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Adams Myth" <Adams_Myth@...> wrote:

> I think you need to define what you mean by "looser" "pay table" and
> "pay out percentage" before you can get a truly meaningful answer

I don't have an exact of idea of these terms myself. I ahve seen
these terms being used here, and in VP articles.

Go ahead and give your own definition, assume a time period, and
provide an answer. And then, say what happens when the time period
gets longer or shorter.

A Myth

1. The paytable is the sole indicator of the payout percentage "Potential". Your playing skills and luck will determine the actual payout percentage.

2. If the machines are legal the answer is no.

Regards
A.P.

···

----- Original Message ----- From: "Adams Myth" <Adams_Myth@HotMail.Com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:29 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Newbie Needs Help

1. I am associating a pay table with a pay out percentage.

2. Is it possible to have two machines with the same pay table, but
different pay out percentages? (Of course I mean the same game)