vpFREE2 Forums

New VP Book "powerful profits"

#1

In a message dated 12/23/2003 12:20:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ljboxer@earthlink.net writes:

I apologize if this has already been posted, but according to
Winpoker, choosing Aces only over Aces and Kings in DB is an
astonishing loss of:

Best play (hold both As and Ks)....8.8980
Aces only..........................8.8175

Winpoker calls this a "minor error." True, all those minor errors do
add up, but over what timeframe? This was described as a short term
strategy alternative, and I'll just assume here that the author means
a few hours of recreational play. Under those circumstances, I see
nothing wrong with the risk/reward component of that play.

Actually, for the hand you mention, in 10/7 DB, holding any two pair is worth
8.8298 coins,
and holding a pair of Aces is worth 8.8175 coins. If this is the only hand
which you break up the two pair, the theoretical loss is pretty insignificant. I
know a few pros who hold just the Aces from Aces up.

However, I believe the book's original suggestion (as quoted on this List)
was that it is okay to hold any HIGH PAIR out of two pair and go for the quad,
assuming you know what the best play really is. This is truly a horrible
suggestion, as the value of a pair of Ks,Qs,Js is 7.2911 coins. You give up over
$1.53 in EV each time you make this play if you are playing dollars! AND you
increase the game's variance to boot! This type hand comes up fairly often, anyone
actually breaking up the two pair to hold ANY high pair has no chance of
winning in anything but the VERY short term.

Brian

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

I agree that A-A-X-X plus is the only situation where this alternate
hold is acceptable. I doubt if the author is telling people to drop a
low pair in favor of any high pair hold in DB. If so, burn the book.

lb
"variance giveth, variance taketh away"

However, I believe the book's original suggestion (as quoted on

this List)

was that it is okay to hold any HIGH PAIR out of two pair and go

for the quad,

assuming you know what the best play really is. This is truly a

horrible

suggestion, as the value of a pair of Ks,Qs,Js is 7.2911 coins. You

give up over

$1.53 in EV each time you make this play if you are playing

dollars! AND you

increase the game's variance to boot! This type hand comes up

fairly often, anyone

actually breaking up the two pair to hold ANY high pair has no

chance of

···

winning in anything but the VERY short term.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

lawrenceboxer wrote:

I doubt if the author is telling people to drop a low pair in favor
of any high pair hold in DB. If so, burn the book.

Now that sounds a bit more sensible to me ... :slight_smile:

···

------

Note that in my original comments I was relying upon the first post on
this topic, which suggested that the author advocates breaking two
high pairs to go for a quad - without being more specific. In light
of lb's discussion, I expect it was the "2 pair, w/ Aces" situation
that was specifically being addressed, which is a far more defensible
position.

I have far less concern over that single strategy modification given
the modest cost, although I don't think it's advisable. On a similar
note, though, I've indicated in the past that I find holding a pat
"Aces" full house rather than going for the quad Aces in 10/7 DB to be
a very reasonable strategy (razor thin cost, much more appreciable
variance reduction).

- Harry