vpFREE2 Forums

New research on Class II VP and NJ regulations

#1

The discussions last week made me curious so I've done some new research.

Although last September IGT's representatives assured me that they
did not offer Bingo-based Game Kings they were mistaken. Some time in
2005 they began offering these games and they work exactly the same
as the VLT's in Washington Tribal and NY Racinos as I've described
before. The way to tell, of course, is to go into the Help screen and
see if they show the Genie feature. If they do, the pay table is irrelevant.

The good news for you in Florida is that Class III is coming whenever
the Tribes and Bush can agree on a Compact. But keep checking the
help screen. If there's a genie the draw doesn't matter. If not, it
does. (On IGT machines, if other manufacturers are offering Class II
BP with a "draw" they may use a "Match" feature to adjust payouts).

New Jersey:
I spoke to the regulators and it is true that they do not have a
regulation requiring machines to deal randomly from a 52-card deck.
However, the Laboratory is instructed to test for this and not
approve any machine that does not deal exactly as Nevada machines do.
So we can safely trust the paytables in AC.

Even though the Chairman of the Nevada Gaming Commission could permit
a manufacturer to ship a VP machine that does not deal randomly to
another jurisdiction, that jurisdiction is NOT NJ since they wouldn't
permit such a machine in the state. And, with the exceptions of Class
II and Washington / NY VLT's where the help screen clearly shows the
genie, no machines are authorized to be manufactured in Nevada that
do not deal fairly from a 52-card deck.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Thanks for taking the time to do the research and get the answers.

#3

<<The discussions last week made me curious so I've done some new research.>>

Thanx, Bill, for this new information. I was pretty sure that what I had written was correct - I talk to IGT people too. This all proves one certainty - nothing is "certain" is this fast-changing area.

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

#4

The discussions last week made me curious so I've done some new
research.

Although last September IGT's representatives assured me that they
did not offer Bingo-based Game Kings they were mistaken. Some time

in

2005 they began offering these games and they work exactly the same
as the VLT's in Washington Tribal and NY Racinos as I've described
before. The way to tell, of course, is to go into the Help screen

and

see if they show the Genie feature. If they do, the pay table is

irrelevant.

I also thank you for this information. However, I've played
the "match play" machines in Washington, and there is no HELP
screen. A couple years ago I mentioned these machines on this board,
thinking they were LV style VP, until other posters convinced me they
wern't. But they are not IGT products ... I seem to recall the
words "Sierra" or "Sega" appear on them. I wish I could be more
positive about the manufacturer. I remember looking into this 8-10
months ago and found out Sierra (or whatever) is a subsidiary of a
larger company (Alliance Gaming possibly).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

#5

Is this what you are thinking of?

On March 3, 2004, Alliance Gaming announced that it had completed
the acquisition of privately held Sierra Design Group (SDG), a
leading supplier of Class II and Class III gaming devices, systems
and technology based in Reno, Nevada. SDG enjoys a strong
relationship with Native American casino operators in Washington,
Oklahoma, California and Florida and is active in video lottery
markets ranging from New York State to Austria.

The discussions last week made me curious so I've done some new
research.
>
> Although last September IGT's representatives assured me that

they

> did not offer Bingo-based Game Kings they were mistaken. Some

time

in
> 2005 they began offering these games and they work exactly the

same

> as the VLT's in Washington Tribal and NY Racinos as I've

described

> before. The way to tell, of course, is to go into the Help

screen

and
> see if they show the Genie feature. If they do, the pay table is
irrelevant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I also thank you for this information. However, I've played
the "match play" machines in Washington, and there is no HELP
screen. A couple years ago I mentioned these machines on this

board,

thinking they were LV style VP, until other posters convinced me

they

wern't. But they are not IGT products ... I seem to recall the
words "Sierra" or "Sega" appear on them. I wish I could be more
positive about the manufacturer. I remember looking into this 8-

10

···

-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@> wrote:
months ago and found out Sierra (or whatever) is a subsidiary of a
larger company (Alliance Gaming possibly).

#6

<<However, I've played
the "match play" machines in Washington, and there is no HELP
screen. A couple years ago I mentioned these machines on this board,
thinking they were LV style VP, until other posters convinced me they
wern't. But they are not IGT products ... I seem to recall the
words "Sierra" or "Sega" appear on them. >>

I'm not sure of this - but it seems like someone told me 6-9 months ago that Sierra was the name of a branch of IGT that manufacturered Class II machines. Whether that is right - or outdated information - I'm not sure. I've slept since then! :slight_smile:

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

#7

I'm not sure of this - but it seems like someone told me 6-9 months

ago that

Sierra was the name of a branch of IGT that manufacturered Class II
machines. Whether that is right - or outdated information - I'm

not sure.

I've slept since then! :slight_smile:
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

I think that was me, but it's Alliance Gaming, not IGT. Sierra is a
subsidiary of Alliance Gaming, according to kelso1600's post #56040
below. The Sierra machine has no HELP information explaining the
connection to Bingo (in the Washington casinos I visited). Now it
appears IGT makes a similar device that uses a "genie" of some sort.
I don't know how that differs (if at all) with the match play feature
in the Sierra machines.

Another interesting thing is that Alliance Gaming has a
huge "Bally's" division that specializes in gambling software. But
it has no connection to the "Bally's" casino in LV. Maybe there was
a connection years ago. Alliance Gaming operates one casino, but
it's not in LV.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@...> wrote:
                   *************************

On March 3, 2004, Alliance Gaming announced that it had completed

the acquisition of privately held Sierra Design Group (SDG), a
leading supplier of Class II and Class III gaming devices, systems
and technology based in Reno, Nevada. SDG enjoys a strong
relationship with Native American casino operators in Washington,
Oklahoma, California and Florida and is active in video lottery
markets ranging from New York State to Austria.

#8

<<On March 3, 2004, Alliance Gaming announced that it had completed
the acquisition of privately held Sierra Design Group (SDG), a
leading supplier of Class II and Class III gaming devices, systems
and technology based in Reno, Nevada.>>

This may be what I was thinking about. It is so hard to keep up with all of this.

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

#9

The Sierra machine has no HELP information explaining the
connection to Bingo (in the Washington casinos I visited). Now it
appears IGT makes a similar device that uses a "genie" of some sort.
I don't know how that differs (if at all) with the match play feature
in the Sierra machines.

Just for the record, the Washington State machines are not
Bingo-based. They are based on lottery scratch-tickets. Not that this
makes any difference to the player.
The way the Genie works is when the player makes a hold that prevents
the pre-determined hand from appearing it generates a similar paying
hand. For example, if you are dealt a 10-high straight flush in
spades and throw away the 8 the genie appears and touches the cards
one at a time. The 10 might become the 6H, and you will end up with a
7-high straight flush. Or if you are dealt 3 high suited cards and
toss them the genie might appear and generate a Royal in another suit
if that was your destiny.
Some day I'd like to find out if the programming is designed to avoid
the impossible. In other words if you are destined for a Royal I
assume the initial deal could not contain one high card in each suit
since that would allow the player to prevent even the genie from
displaying the Royal. Of course that is the only situation like that
so maybe if you are going to get a Royal it will always deal you one,
or a one-card draw or something like that.
Remember, in a Nevada-style game the cards dealt are random and the
outcome is based on the final hand. In a VLT or Class II machine the
outcome is predetermined so the display can be anything the programmer wishes.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I understand that the match
feature adjusts the final payout rather than creating a new hand with
the right pay.

Another interesting thing is that Alliance Gaming has a
huge "Bally's" division that specializes in gambling software. But
it has no connection to the "Bally's" casino in LV. Maybe there was
a connection years ago. Alliance Gaming operates one casino, but
it's not in LV.

Everything with the Bally's name, including the machine
manufacturing, casinos and fitness centers once was one company. It
split up and the successors retained the rights to the name.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

At 05:12 PM 2/10/2006, you wrote: