vpFREE2 Forums

New Progressive Video Poker information available

#1

Do you remember Five Deck Frenzy? You won the wide area progressive
jackpot if you hit five Aces of Spades. Apparently it was a failure, as it didn't
last more than a few months.

I like the idea of a WAP VP game. Make it a dealt Spade Sequential Royal,
TJQKA, and it's one chance in 311,875,200, which certainly would make for
some decent jackpot amounts. Have the base game something like quarter 9/5
DDB, start the jackpot at $1,000,000 (making the game 98.2% at reset), add a
1% meter (average jackpot amount will be around $4,900,000), and maybe
you've got something all those DDB fans out there will play! :slight_smile:

Obviously, hitting a jackpot with odds of one in 312 million against is not
very realistic. If we assume that at some point, the game goes positive,
what odds for the top jackpot are small enough that you might be tempted to
take a shot? One in a million? One in ten million? Lots of people play
Megabucks, and those odds are one in 49 million! Remember that the lower the
odds, the smaller the average jackpot, with a given meter rate. Maybe
something like any spade sequential, dealt or drawn to, which is about one in
seven million? With a 1% meter, for quarters, the average jackpot would be
under $90K. Would that be high enough to tempt quarter players? And would the
ploppies throw away Ts3s5s7s9s or TsJdQcKhAd and just draw to the T? :slight_smile:

Brian

···

=================================

In a message dated 9/5/2010 10:53:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com writes:

I wonder if IGT can be convinced to do some state wide or region wide
progressive on video poker or keno like they do now with slots.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Do you remember Five Deck Frenzy? You won the wide area progressive
jackpot if you hit five Aces of Spades. Apparently it was a failure, as it didn't
last more than a few months.

···

--- On Mon, 9/6/10, bjaygold@aol.com <bjaygold@aol.com> wrote:

=========================================================
Yes! Loved to play it at Binions, where a bank of Five Card Frenzy was located on the right wall, near the front entrance, and also at Fitzgeralds, where two machines were located back in a corner, on the second floor.

The game was profitable to me, using Lenny Frome's strategy, which was printed in the
"Card Player" magazine. Lenny said that it was a beatable game that woudn't last too
long. As usual, he was correct!

~Babe~

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

There were a few like this online, if I remember correctly, although I have not played much since the 2006 legislation. Does anyone remember Mega Jacks on the Playtech Software network? Once that jackpot got going, it got going fast! I don't know what kind of meter it had or how it worked exactly, but there must have been a gazillion people sitting in front of their computers at home and waiting for this thing to get positive. Oh, incidentally, it was 25-cent 9/6 JoB if you don't know what I'm talking about. It regularly went over $2000, and I think the record was like $5500. Holy crap! lol How can the thing hit $5500 without spitting out a royal? I don't know, but it did, I saw it, I played it.

-BB

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, bjaygold@... wrote:

I like the idea of a WAP VP game.

#4

That's a wonderful fairy tale or urban legend. I got the information on a first-hand basis in a meeting with John Daley (who at the time was the head of IGT's video poker unit and I still have his business card), i.e. I got it from the horse's mouth.

As you know, the meeting was private meaning I can only share public domain information (i.e. 8K, 10Q, 10K filings). IGT had been trying really hard to make a multi-million dollar VP game like Megabucks and that's why 5-deck frenzy was developed. Unfortunately, IGT sunk a significant amount of funds (the actual number was never disclosed but telegraphed) and due to poor returns, the game was canceled. My guess is the loss was in the "millions" considering the nation-wide roll out, the associated marketing expenses, legal expenses, etc. It's something they don't like to bring up.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, patricia swenson <jackessiebabe@...> wrote:

Lenny said that it was a beatable game that woudn't last too long. As usual, he was correct!

#5

When I read this post again I realized that the game was at the Las Vegas Club, not
at Binions.......Well, they are right next to each other! {{O:

~Babe~

···

===============================================
--- On Mon, 9/6/10, patricia swenson <jackessiebabe@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes! Loved to play it at Binions, where a bank of Five Card Frenzy was located on the right wall, near the front entrance, and also at Fitzgeralds, where two machines were located back in a corner, on the second floor.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

Thanks for the compliment! My statement happens to be true. But in the area of telling
fairy tales, I could never compete with you!

~Babe~

···

=========================================================
-- On Mon, 9/6/10, fordscks <jason_c_vp@yahoo.com> wrote:

That's a wonderful fairy tale or urban legend. I got the information on a first-hand basis in a meeting with John Daley (who at the time was the head of IGT's video poker unit and I still have his business card), i.e. I got it from the horse's mouth.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, patricia swenson <jackessiebabe@...> wrote:

Lenny said that it was a beatable game that woudn't last too long. As usual, he was correct!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Another idea: take the current game of wheel poker and juice it up with a WAP. Seems to me (I could be wrong) that the current quarter Wheel of Fortune is the most popular WAP game. It features a jackpot that starts at $200,000 and a 1% meter.

Here's the IGT page on WAP record jackpots:
https://www.igt.com/GamingGroup/MegaJackpots/JackpotRecords.asp?pid=4.92

Quarter WOF got to $8,423,083.43 (not by meter and short coin play alone, IGT sweetened the pot by dumping some other progressives into it). Also, I'm pretty sure IGT did not 86 the winner even though this was obviously a positive play and most players at the time understood it was in record territory and that's why they played it (hint hint to casino management, regular people play jackpots when they are unusually high).

Here's the current list of quarter WOF hits:
http://www.a2zlasvegas.com/games/progressive/wfq.html

It hits pretty regularly, which probably adds to its appeal.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, bjaygold@... wrote:

Do you remember Five Deck Frenzy? You won the wide area progressive
jackpot if you hit five Aces of Spades. Apparently it was a failure, as it didn't
last more than a few months.

I like the idea of a WAP VP game. Make it a dealt Spade Sequential Royal,
TJQKA, and it's one chance in 311,875,200, which certainly would make for
some decent jackpot amounts. Have the base game something like quarter 9/5
DDB, start the jackpot at $1,000,000 (making the game 98.2% at reset), add a
1% meter (average jackpot amount will be around $4,900,000), and maybe
you've got something all those DDB fans out there will play! :slight_smile:

Obviously, hitting a jackpot with odds of one in 312 million against is not
very realistic. If we assume that at some point, the game goes positive,
what odds for the top jackpot are small enough that you might be tempted to
take a shot? One in a million? One in ten million? Lots of people play
Megabucks, and those odds are one in 49 million! Remember that the lower the
odds, the smaller the average jackpot, with a given meter rate. Maybe
something like any spade sequential, dealt or drawn to, which is about one in
seven million? With a 1% meter, for quarters, the average jackpot would be
under $90K. Would that be high enough to tempt quarter players? And would the
ploppies throw away Ts3s5s7s9s or TsJdQcKhAd and just draw to the T? :slight_smile:

Brian

=================================

In a message dated 9/5/2010 10:53:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
nightoftheiguana2000@... writes:

I wonder if IGT can be convinced to do some state wide or region wide
progressive on video poker or keno like they do now with slots.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

I can think of lots of reasons, some are: 2% or more meter, short coin play, casino sweetened the pot either from other progressive it took down or simply for promotional purposes. One of the most profitable promotions casinos can make is to dump the promotion fund into an existing progressive jackpot. The higher the jackpot, the more people play, the more money the casino makes. It's not rocket science.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

Oh, incidentally, it was 25-cent 9/6 JoB if you don't know what I'm talking about. It regularly went over $2000, and I think the record was like $5500. Holy crap! lol How can the thing hit $5500 without spitting out a royal? I don't know, but it did, I saw it, I played it.

#9

The largest progressive quarter I have ever seen was $46,000.

That was progressive Tens or Better with a 6% meter in Tahoe.

I have played dozens of quarters over $10,000. Some were even 1% meters.

FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, bjaygold@ wrote:
>

>
> I like the idea of a WAP VP game.

There were a few like this online, if I remember correctly, although I have not played much since the 2006 legislation. Does anyone remember Mega Jacks on the Playtech Software network? Once that jackpot got going, it got going fast! I don't know what kind of meter it had or how it worked exactly, but there must have been a gazillion people sitting in front of their computers at home and waiting for this thing to get positive. Oh, incidentally, it was 25-cent 9/6 JoB if you don't know what I'm talking about. It regularly went over $2000, and I think the record was like $5500. Holy crap! lol How can the thing hit $5500 without spitting out a royal? I don't know, but it did, I saw it, I played it.

-BB

#10

Again, this was an online casino I'm talking about. Did you ever play any of the Playtech casinos, Iguana? It was pretty cool. A lot of fun, sitting in my underwear and playing 9/6 JoB from my bedroom. Alas, no more players from the United States allowed on Playtech. :frowning:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

I can think of lots of reasons, some are: 2% or more meter, short coin play, casino sweetened the pot either from other progressive it took down or simply for promotional purposes. One of the most profitable promotions casinos can make is to dump the promotion fund into an existing progressive jackpot. The higher the jackpot, the more people play, the more money the casino makes. It's not rocket science.

#11

Wow! Doesn't seem possible. I don't know if I've ever seen a Tens or Better game other than on online casinos. With a 6% meter, what was the base game? 90%?

So far I have found many quarter games in the $3000 range. Like I said, I'm a relative newbie.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

The largest progressive quarter I have ever seen was $46,000.

That was progressive Tens or Better with a 6% meter in Tahoe.

I have played dozens of quarters over $10,000. Some were even 1% meters.

#12

Well now you're asking me to remember stuff from about 17 years ago. I remember the cost was about $4,400, and our start number was $9,000.
They had a lot of them in Reno and The Lake.

Of all the times we played them, I think that one bad runner was the only loss. I seem to remember we lost about $60,000 hitting it.
No big deal, prior to that we were up .25 mill on the play.

It was a long time ago. My memory is not perfect that far back. So don't quote me on any of this.

~There is no grace in victory, for one who revels in bloodshed cannot rule the world.

~Frank Kneeland, former manager of the largest Vegas slot team and Author of The Secret World of Video Poker Progressives--A History and How-To of Video Poker Slot Teams in Las Vegas. www.progressivevp.com

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bobbartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> The largest progressive quarter I have ever seen was $46,000.
>
> That was progressive Tens or Better with a 6% meter in Tahoe.
>
> I have played dozens of quarters over $10,000. Some were even 1% meters.
>

Wow! Doesn't seem possible. I don't know if I've ever seen a Tens or Better game other than on online casinos. With a 6% meter, what was the base game? 90%?

So far I have found many quarter games in the $3000 range. Like I said, I'm a relative newbie.

#13

The Tens or Better (two pair even money) quarter progressive bank was just off the Main Bar and Poker Room. 5% Meter. It was there when I was playing Tahoe from 97 to 2000. I seem to remember it got teamed at about 8 or 9 thousand. There was also a Big Bertha dollar denom Tens or Better, 5% meter, that got teamed at around $25,000.

The 4.5% meter play you referred to was the Main Bar. Dollar 6/5 Jacks, 2% quad meter, 1.5% straight flush, 1% royal. The standard play was to come in when the quad meter doubled from $125 to $250. The quad had to miss about 3 cycles to put it there. Short coin play offset that a little.

The poker room was just off the Main Bar. The Friday and Saturday night 10-20 holdem game was a mixture of vacationers, video poker pros, sports bettors and advantage slot players. There was a display on the backbar showing the meter movement of the bartops. It could be seen from the poker room.

Many nights there was never a play and we just played poker. But on some nights, when the quad meter was approaching $250 the hustlers would start eyeballin' and smilin' at each other. We were all pulling for it to get there.

At about $245 we would all get up and move to the open machines at the bar. They were hand feeders but held credits. The bartender had to fly into action because we all wanted two racks of tokes. We waited for everyone to get set up all the while telling each other how bad we were goig to kick each others butts.

At the $250 mark we were off. Hand feed, play the credits off, hand feed play the credits off, hand feed play the credits off. If you had to bust into the second rack you immediately ordered another one. Didn't want to run out of tokes. The poker dealers and floor personnel all stood by waiting patiently until we got the quad race over with.

When the quad hit, everyone hit the cashout button and it was CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! We all racked up and headed back to the ten-twenty game telling each other how bad we were going to kick each others butts.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Well now you're asking me to remember stuff from about 17 years ago. I remember the cost was about $4,400, and our start number was $9,000.
They had a lot of them in Reno and The Lake.

Of all the times we played them, I think that one bad runner was the only loss. I seem to remember we lost about $60,000 hitting it.
No big deal, prior to that we were up .25 mill on the play.

It was a long time ago. My memory is not perfect that far back. So >don't quote me on any of this.

#14

Ahh this brings back memories...Yes this is exactly the bank I was talking about in the book. There were 4 more like it around Nevada. I've heard rumors that some still exists around USA.

Before you played there 1 of the tens or betters was 6% and had a suited RF progressive.

Cheers,

FK

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Well now you're asking me to remember stuff from about 17 years ago. I remember the cost was about $4,400, and our start number was $9,000.
> They had a lot of them in Reno and The Lake.
>
> Of all the times we played them, I think that one bad runner was the only loss. I seem to remember we lost about $60,000 hitting it.
> No big deal, prior to that we were up .25 mill on the play.
>
> It was a long time ago. My memory is not perfect that far back. So >don't quote me on any of this.
>
>
The Tens or Better (two pair even money) quarter progressive bank was just off the Main Bar and Poker Room. 5% Meter. It was there when I was playing Tahoe from 97 to 2000. I seem to remember it got teamed at about 8 or 9 thousand. There was also a Big Bertha dollar denom Tens or Better, 5% meter, that got teamed at around $25,000.

The 4.5% meter play you referred to was the Main Bar. Dollar 6/5 Jacks, 2% quad meter, 1.5% straight flush, 1% royal. The standard play was to come in when the quad meter doubled from $125 to $250. The quad had to miss about 3 cycles to put it there. Short coin play offset that a little.

The poker room was just off the Main Bar. The Friday and Saturday night 10-20 holdem game was a mixture of vacationers, video poker pros, sports bettors and advantage slot players. There was a display on the backbar showing the meter movement of the bartops. It could be seen from the poker room.

Many nights there was never a play and we just played poker. But on some nights, when the quad meter was approaching $250 the hustlers would start eyeballin' and smilin' at each other. We were all pulling for it to get there.

At about $245 we would all get up and move to the open machines at the bar. They were hand feeders but held credits. The bartender had to fly into action because we all wanted two racks of tokes. We waited for everyone to get set up all the while telling each other how bad we were goig to kick each others butts.

At the $250 mark we were off. Hand feed, play the credits off, hand feed play the credits off, hand feed play the credits off. If you had to bust into the second rack you immediately ordered another one. Didn't want to run out of tokes. The poker dealers and floor personnel all stood by waiting patiently until we got the quad race over with.

When the quad hit, everyone hit the cashout button and it was CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! CLANG! We all racked up and headed back to the ten-twenty game telling each other how bad we were going to kick each others butts.

#15

Frank, I consider you to be a breath of fresh air. You are so innocent in your presentation. But watch out. There's a lot of sharks in the sea. Do I give a damn about you telling me about I should hold a KT suited over a straight draw when the money is at $2713? No I don't. I can't believe Bob Dancer or Dan Paymar threw you into these shark infested waters. Them boys must be laughing their asses off.

All I can tell you is this, pal. They didn't put a skirt on me and make me a cocktail waitress when I was in Tahoe. I beat them slouches up down sideways and them gave them a sidekick. At the moment that Harrah's suits came down and told me I was no longer welcome I stook my hand out in friendship and told them no hard feelings. They wished me the same. I turned around and walked out the door. Would I ever beg them bastards to let me back in? It's been ten years, they could kiss my ass then, they can kiss my ass now. Lightweights.

Frank, do me a favor and don't tell me to play a QJ suited over a ST4ih3 when the money is at $3714.

Watch out, Frank. vpFREE ain't no lightweights.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

Ahh this brings back memories...Yes this is exactly the bank I was talking about in the book. There were 4 more like it around Nevada. I've heard rumors that some still exists around USA.

Before you played there 1 of the tens or betters was 6% and had a suited RF progressive.

Cheers,

FK

#16

Frank, I apologive for my crude remarks. I just can't handle it any more. So I'm emailing my best friend, Rob Singer, and asking him to take up the debate with you. Thanks, Frank, and be gentle with Rob, he's a little squeamish.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@> wrote:
>
> Ahh this brings back memories...Yes this is exactly the bank I was talking about in the book. There were 4 more like it around Nevada. I've heard rumors that some still exists around USA.
>
> Before you played there 1 of the tens or betters was 6% and had a suited RF progressive.
>
> Cheers,
>
> FK
>
Frank, I consider you to be a breath of fresh air. You are so innocent in your presentation. But watch out. There's a lot of sharks in the sea. Do I give a damn about you telling me about I should hold a KT suited over a straight draw when the money is at $2713? No I don't. I can't believe Bob Dancer or Dan Paymar threw you into these shark infested waters. Them boys must be laughing their asses off.

All I can tell you is this, pal. They didn't put a skirt on me and make me a cocktail waitress when I was in Tahoe. I beat them slouches up down sideways and them gave them a sidekick. At the moment that Harrah's suits came down and told me I was no longer welcome I stook my hand out in friendship and told them no hard feelings. They wished me the same. I turned around and walked out the door. Would I ever beg them bastards to let me back in? It's been ten years, they could kiss my ass then, they can kiss my ass now. Lightweights.

Frank, do me a favor and don't tell me to play a QJ suited over a ST4ih3 when the money is at $3714.

Watch out, Frank. vpFREE ain't no lightweights.

#17

mickeycrimm wrote:
<Frank, I consider you to be a breath of fresh air. You are so innocent in your presentation.>

Thank you. I'm sure my girlfriend would disagree, at least if I've eaten chili recently. I think what you are sensing is not so much innocence as it is the unusual place from which I come. Let me explain. I've been meaning to post about this anyway.

Though I can't speak for them for sure, I believe most of the other VP authors were up an coming successful independent players seeking to make extra money publishing books. I am neither. I had 13 years of pro gambling under my belt before writing the first word of my outline, and took an 80% cut in pay to work on the book for all these years.

I knew it would cost, not make me money, and I did it anyway. I have bought something very valuable with that lost income though, and that is self respect.

You see almost all the people that play VP, did or do something else. VP is there retirement pastime, their hobby, etc... Until I started writing my book, pro gambling was all I'd ever really done. I didn't have years as a doctor, or painter, or anything else to have filled my life with self worth. So like the mythical Merlin, I'm essentially aging backwards.

Rather than migrating from the career of my youth to professional gambling in my twilight years, I'm walking up the down escalator searching for my lost youth.

mickeycrimm also wrote:< I can't believe Bob Dancer or Dan Paymar threw you into these shark infested waters.>

To add to that, many of the strategies and techniques I present in my book are the creation of a large group of VP professionals (my ex-partners, employers, competition, etc...). As such I don't feel the personal attachment to them that the other independent VP authors feel. If someone gets on vpFREE and nay-says the system of strategy nomenclature used in my book, I don't take it personally. I just think, "Hmm, I'll have to call Steve and tell him they didn't like his abbreviations. Bet he'll be mad."

Many of the conventions used in our team were indeed of my creation, and I doubt I could tell you which they are if money was offered. It was a team effort and I have never cared about credit, only getting the job done.

I have nothing to prove, and no ego to bruise. I just want to share my experience and help people. I only ask that no one mentions my hair.

~My quote generator is currently experiencing technical difficulties. So for now, please make up your own.

~Frank Kneeland

#18

Mickey, you remember Snapper and Tapper the Bucket Brothers? Maybe you have a story or two about them you'd like to share?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

Frank, I apologive for my crude remarks. I just can't handle it any more. So I'm emailing my best friend, Rob Singer, and asking him to take up the debate with you. Thanks, Frank, and be gentle with Rob, he's a little squeamish.

#19

NOTI, I have no clue who the Bucket Brothers are. But I do know what a bucket team is.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:

Mickey, you remember Snapper and Tapper the Bucket Brothers? Maybe >you have a story or two about them you'd like to share?