Mickey,
I see the indians walking around the casino and checking the machines. When they find one they like, they sit down to play it. I am not up on some of the machines, but the ones they seem to go to are the ones that have little yellow cars. Do you know anything about these machines? Alot of this machines have bonus rounds.
New Mexico VP
New Mexico is Class 3 (What we would consider normal.) I went into Sunland
Park (A racino near El Paso TX.) about 3-1/2 years ago (I was basically
working on outsourcing my job and I still do not have another one.) That
house was slots only and the 7 VP games were awful in the low 96% range. I
wrote a report for vpfree at the time and that became the database for that
house.
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From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
nenapapa2001
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 2:03 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] New Mexico VP
Mickey,
I see the indians walking around the casino and checking the machines. When
they find one they like, they sit down to play it. I am not up on some of
the machines, but the ones they seem to go to are the ones that have little
yellow cars. Do you know anything about these machines? Alot of this
machines have bonus rounds.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think you are probably describing Super 8 Race. The game is a copy of Super 8 Liner, but with a different configuration. Both are IGT video line games. There are 9 squares on each game where the symbols land. There is a progressive meter on both games for catching "all fruit." The meter runs at 2.777777% You can bet up to 40 nickels on each game, but you only have to bet 8 nickels to qualify for the progressive.
There is another feature on both games called the "fever round." In Super 8 Liner you have to catch 5 Bells in a diamond pattern to enter fever mode. I put the frequency of occurence at 1500. In Super 8 Race you have to catch 4 Cars in a diamond pattern to enter fever mode. I put that frequency at 240.
Since I had no inside information on the games I had to do my own empirical study. In Super 8 Liner I put the frequency for a fruit symbol to land in any one square at 2.5. Which put the chances of catching "all fruit" at 3900.
In Super 8 Race I put the frequency of catching "all fruit" at 3.3333. Which put the chances of catching "all fruit" at 19,900.
So you can see there is a major difference between the two games. The fever mode frequency in Super 8 Liner(1500)put some big variance in the game but I had put the cost of spinning a play off at about $150. So I would generally play with 4400 coins or more in the meter. Catching all fruit happens fast if you put the machine speed on turbo and continually tap the start button. About and hour and a half a play. So it was a $70 earn plus about a $40 meter win. I would go with lower numbers in this game if I could count on getting several plays a week, but that's not the way it happened. Plays were infrequennt.
Super 8 Race is a long term play because of the frequency of catching all fruit. I don't remember where I put the cost, probably somewhere in the mid $200's. The game had a smaller drop and lower variance than Super 8 Liner, but much longer odds of catching all fruit. I played the game at about 8000 coins in the meter, but only if I didn't have anything else to do. Also, the meter caps at 10,000 coins.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nenapapa2001" <nenapapa@...> wrote:
Mickey,
I see the indians walking around the casino and checking the machines. When they find one they like, they sit down to play it. I am not up on some of the machines, but the ones they seem to go to are the ones that have little yellow cars. Do you know anything about these machines? Alot of this machines have bonus rounds.
Thank you, Mickey, for the excellent post. It's a classic.
Let me ask you a question. I am a relative newbie at even knowing about these two games you described. A year ago, I had not even paid attention to them. My question is, do you think the casino has an option of changing the "looseness or tightness" of these games? Or are the numbers you crunched pretty uniform?
Thanks,
-BB
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
I think you are probably describing Super 8 Race.
<snip>
Through the "hustlers grapevine" I was told that IGT had three different chips for the game, i.e., three different paybacks. Any time I was on a Super 8 Liner play, I always monitored the drop. I did this through tracking my total wager (I pretty much used the slot card to do this) and how much money I was stuck....because you were always stuck when you hit the "all fruit" but the money you won in the meter more than made up for it. If I thought I was taking to big of a drop I walked away from the play. But that only happened a couple of times.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:
Let me ask you a question. I am a relative newbie at even knowing about these two games you described. A year ago, I had not even paid attention to them. My question is, do you think the casino has an option of changing the "looseness or tightness" of these games? Or are the numbers you crunched pretty uniform?
Thanks,
-BB
Bob, I made a mistake in the prior post. I didn't use the card to track my total wager. I used the progressive meter itself. It took a $36 wager to put $1 in the meter, which works out to 2.77777%.
And since I was betting 40 cents per game every $1 that went in the meter represented 90 games.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
Bob, I made a mistake in the prior post. I didn't use the card to track my total wager. I used the progressive meter itself. It took a $36 wager to put $1 in the meter, which works out to 2.77777%.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@> wrote:
>
> Bob, I made a mistake in the prior post. I didn't use the card to track my total wager. I used the progressive meter itself. It took a $36 wager to put $1 in the meter, which works out to 2.77777%.
>
And since I was betting 40 cents per game every $1 that went in the meter represented 90 games.
I went to a local casino tonight to take a better look at these machines. (yes, I know it's Christmas, but I wasn't the only one, there were many people there at 3:00 in the morning, sickeys) Anyway, as you said, the meter went up a dollar (20 coins) at $36 action. I happened to hit the race feature in the middle, which was a nice surprise.
Mickey, there's another game I noticed called Ring'em Up. Unlike Super 8, the banked bonus goes up when two or more triple bars scatter instead of based on action. I looked at several machines and this feature was quite low compared to Super 8 so I figured I would try them to see how much more frequently they must hit. I found two machines in the whole place that had bonuses over 400, most others were closer to 120 or so and it starts at 100. Sure enough, I hit all-fruit at $141 coin-in on the first machine, then another all-fruit at $300 coin-in. Each paid about 800 coins even though they were closer to 500. I'm not sure where the other 300 came from and reading the pay-help on those slots makes my head hurt. I know there were a bunch of watermelons and plums and stuff, whatever. lol
So back to the Super 8, most were low, several around 1200 or so, a few at 3000, some under 100. So someone is hitting them. I did see one that was at 6500.
Then I got tired and went home.
Mickey, do you have any thoughts on Ring'em Up?
Thanks again, Mickey. And Merry Christmas.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Bartop wrote:
Mickey, do you have any thoughts on Ring'em Up?
It's a game I never worked on. But if I was gonna work on it, this is what I would do:
In my spare time I'm gonna bet one coin a spin for 500 spins and count the number of times a fruit symbol lands in the upper right square. Then another 500 spins counting the number of times a fruit symbol lands in the upper middle square, then the upper right square, and so on. Once I've got a sample space for all nine squares I'll probably do thing same thing again, adding to the sample space.
Some people think you have to make a million spins to zero in on a frequency, that's true if you are dealing with a longshot frequency, but when you have a high frequency of occurrance, like every two or three spins, you don't need that big of a sample space to zero in on it.
So if you put the chances of a fruit symbol landing in a square at 2.25, then just multiply that number out 9 times.
I'm also gonna clock the meter to see how fast it runs. And I'll use the meter to track my total wager. And if I make any long shot hits I'm gonna cull that stat out as it will skew the results.
There were two other exploitable games on the machines that had ring em up, called Treasure Chest and Red Hot Sevens. If you have them where you are at then look for the icons at the top of the screen. If 3 of the five icons are filled in then go ahead and spin the play off. Once you get all 5 icons filled in you get a bunch of free games with the Treasure Chest symbols or the Red Hot Seven symbols becoming wild.
Around 11 am, the temperature was a great 72!. The access road arriving was smooth sailing but by 3 p.m. there was a traffic guard at the bottom of the mountain waving cars in whatever direction. Still ok.
The buffet line was out the entrance and reached down to the end of the food court. The place was crowded but the 50c, $1 on up VP were available.
It was a happy surprise to see the same $ bank I've reported on with the 9/6 JOB, 10/7 DB, etc. No luck today, however.
Anteroz
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yep, you can even figure out a video poker machine to see if it's legit. For first pass approximation assume 90% return on the bottom 6 payouts which would be 15% each. If the bottom paytable is 9-6-4-3-2-1, and if each of those returns 15%, then the average cycles must be: 60-40-27-20-13-7. Next start playing and see if your results start matching up, if not make corrections. If it's legit you should start seeing on average the JoB about every 5, 2P about every 8, 3K about every 14, and ST, FL, FH about every 88. Draw poker has the added complication that there's a strategy involved for the draw, but you can approximate that as well and adjust as your results come in. Now if it turns out that these are fixed or defective machines, you might be able to adjust to get an edge. Or in the case of a slot where you don't know what the cycles are, you can figure them out and see if you can get an edge. Of course most slots are biased towards the house, but with promos, progressives, and bonus rounds, you might get the edge. Some slots seem to have a lot of different payouts, just group them by return, just as you count all flushes as flushes whether they are spade or ace high or whatever. Start with the payouts that are 10 or less, if they aren't coming in you pretty much know you have a high variance machine.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Bartop wrote:
>
> Mickey, do you have any thoughts on Ring'em Up?
>
>
It's a game I never worked on. But if I was gonna work on it, this is what I would do:In my spare time I'm gonna bet one coin a spin for 500 spins and count the number of times a fruit symbol lands in the upper right square. Then another 500 spins counting the number of times a fruit symbol lands in the upper middle square, then the upper right square, and so on. Once I've got a sample space for all nine squares I'll probably do thing same thing again, adding to the sample space.
Some people think you have to make a million spins to zero in on a frequency, that's true if you are dealing with a longshot frequency, but when you have a high frequency of occurrance, like every two or three spins, you don't need that big of a sample space to zero in on it.
So if you put the chances of a fruit symbol landing in a square at 2.25, then just multiply that number out 9 times.
I'm also gonna clock the meter to see how fast it runs. And I'll use the meter to track my total wager. And if I make any long shot hits I'm gonna cull that stat out as it will skew the results.
There were two other exploitable games on the machines that had ring em up, called Treasure Chest and Red Hot Sevens. If you have them where you are at then look for the icons at the top of the screen. If 3 of the five icons are filled in then go ahead and spin the play off. Once you get all 5 icons filled in you get a bunch of free games with the Treasure Chest symbols or the Red Hot Seven symbols becoming wild.
I have been inspired to check some of these Super 8 Race machines since reading this. I found two that were approximately 7000, and someone snapped those off by the second day. I find many that are in the 3000-4000 area. And then, I found one at 25,000. That's 25,000 nickles. It lasted for a few days and there was usually a group of people working on it. Someone had hit it when I checked this morning. There is also another one for quarters I found that is currently over 9000.
During my brief period of checking these, I have seen many that were at zero or just a few dollars. So someone is hitting these.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
Super 8 Race is a long term play because of the frequency of catching all fruit. I don't remember where I put the cost, probably somewhere in the mid $200's. The game had a smaller drop and lower variance than Super 8 Liner, but much longer odds of catching all fruit. I played the game at about 8000 coins in the meter, but only if I didn't have anything else to do. Also, the meter caps at 10,000 coins.
Bob Bartop wrote:
I have been inspired to check some of these Super 8 Race machines since reading this. I found two that were approximately 7000, and someone snapped those off by the second day. I find many that are in the 3000-4000 area. And then, I found one at 25,000. That's 25,000 nickles. It lasted for a few days and there was usually a group of people working on it. Someone had hit it when I checked this morning. There is also another one for quarters I found that is currently over 9000.
During my brief period of checking these, I have seen many that were at zero or just a few dollars. So someone is hitting these.
.The 25,000 coiner is a different configuration than the others. I don't remember what it is but I know it's different.
When I first noticed it, it was about 13,000. Probably about 3 days later it was almost 25,000. There was a small group of Philipinos that probably monopolized it for that time period, although I only stopped by a few hours each day, and they were there each time banging away. It's an Indian casino in Central California and this particular casino does not have much in the way of video poker, although they used to. There are a lot of Super 8 Race games.
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Mickey" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:
>
.The 25,000 coiner is a different configuration than the others. I don't remember what it is but I know it's different.