New file uploaded to vpFREE

[Bob_Sommer_Top_of_th]

Victoria Rosado wrote:

I just uploaded a long text file borrowed from cardcounter.com, if it
does not bother at all those in the group who have defended casino
tactics, then I can only surmise you work for the casino. Having
experienced being in their grasp once I can only ask you to take this
as a warning, though things perhaps will get better because they do
understand one thing. That is losing money in court.
Victoria
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Old news. So what has this voodoo lawyer done lately? Can you spell
"paranoia"? Yes, innocent people do occasionally get hauled into the
back room. But if everyone that was hauled off to the back room of a
casino was innocent, you would be reading about it all the time and the
courts would be overrun with lawsuits. But the percentage is extremely
low. I have no doubt that there are some bad security guards out there,
just like I have no doubt there are some bad people on here on VPFree.

I have been invited and visited several Nevada "back rooms" over the
years, and I am still here. I still have fun when I am in town, visit
those same casinos, and never worry about it. The player has to do
something to trigger the attention from the casino, and 99.9% of the
time that trigger is GREED. If you find a really advantage play, for
whatever reason or game, don't get greedy. Play as you normally do and
don't draw attention to yourself. Leave after a reasonable amount of
time. You can always come back to the machine tomorrow, or look for the
same dealer another day. Unfortunately most will not follow this advice
and will get backed off a game, 86'ed, or the dreaded back room.

There is also a Nevada state law that says if a player knowingly plays a
broken slot machine, it is considered cheating and theft. Nevada courts
have ruled that if you do not have to put money in the machine to play
or if you can hit, jerk the handle, or otherwise manipulate a machine to
alter it's normal play, it is assumed you know the machine is broken.

Lets get back to VP.

Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Harry_Porter]

Bob Sommer wrote:

Old news. So what has this voodoo lawyer done lately? Can you
spell "paranoia"? Yes, innocent people do occasionally get hauled
into the back room. But if everyone that was hauled off to the back
room of a casino was innocent, you would be reading about it all the
time and the courts would be overrun with lawsuits.

The player has to do something to trigger the attention from the
casino, and 99.9% of the time that trigger is GREED. If you find a
really advantage play, for whatever reason or game, don't get
greedy. Play as you normally do and don't draw attention to yourself
... Unfortunately most will not follow this advice and will get
backed off a game, 86'ed, or the dreaded back room.

Lets get back to VP.

I'm surprised at your response, Bob. When I read between the lines,
you're clearly saying "they asked for it so, what do they expect"?

The only issue is whether the treatment is warranted or, for that
matter, legal. Excessive force and detention are neither. The casino
has every right to 86 a player. But undue intimidation tactics that
go beyond a snarl (such as prolonged detention when it's clear there's
been no crime committed) are unconsciable and actionable.

I don't care how unreasonable a player's manner of play may be -- if
no crime has been committed, as has been the case in these horror
tales, there's no defense of the casino's behavior. (I'm not gonna
touch the "voodoo" aspersion".)

- Harry

[Michael_Boutot]

Barbary & Gold Coast have always banned 21 players who had the
slightest run of success whether counting or not. Had seen it enough
myself before Stuart Perry's book. They are no alone. The idea that
THE issue is not the casino's greed as opposed to the players' is
baffling. I saw plenty of drunks/innocents who were winning taken off
roughly to the back area & almost went myself when I did not yet even
have a clue about counting. The casinos' PR dept should get a
standing ovation for the job they have done selling thier side to
some of the folks in here. We ARE "reading about it all the time" &
even experiencing it except apparently at that hall of perfection
(from repeated posts of the gentleman), the LVH.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

Bob Sommer wrote:
> Old news. So what has this voodoo lawyer done lately? Can you
> spell "paranoia"? Yes, innocent people do occasionally get

hauled

> into the back room. But if everyone that was hauled off to the

back

> room of a casino was innocent, you would be reading about it all

the

> time and the courts would be overrun with lawsuits.
>
> The player has to do something to trigger the attention from the
> casino, and 99.9% of the time that trigger is GREED. If you find

a

> really advantage play, for whatever reason or game, don't get
> greedy. Play as you normally do and don't draw attention to

yourself

> ... Unfortunately most will not follow this advice and will get
> backed off a game, 86'ed, or the dreaded back room.
>
> Lets get back to VP.

I'm surprised at your response, Bob. When I read between the lines,
you're clearly saying "they asked for it so, what do they expect"?

The only issue is whether the treatment is warranted or, for that
matter, legal. Excessive force and detention are neither. The

casino

has every right to 86 a player. But undue intimidation tactics that
go beyond a snarl (such as prolonged detention when it's clear

there's

···

been no crime committed) are unconsciable and actionable.

I don't care how unreasonable a player's manner of play may be -- if
no crime has been committed, as has been the case in these horror
tales, there's no defense of the casino's behavior. (I'm not gonna
touch the "voodoo" aspersion".)

- Harry

[jackessiebabe]

In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Sommer - Top of the World Coins
<NL7HT@b...> wrote:

........ I have been invited and visited several Nevada "back rooms"
over the years, and I am still here. I still have fun when I am in
town, visit those same casinos, and never worry about it. The
player has to do something to trigger the attention from the casino,
and 99.9% of the time that trigger is GREED...............

<snip>

Bob

···

-----------------------------------------------------------
Hi Bob,

With all due respect, and a great deal of curiosity (I do believe
that satisfying one's curiosity EDUCATES rather than kills) I would
be most interested to learn about WHY you "have been invited and
visited several Nevada 'back rooms'".

Were you in some sort of official capacity (as in law enforcement)?
Were you doing a special research project? Or, did you commit some
perceived transgression against the casino?

I would also be interested in the PERSONAL experiences of others,
who have actually been in a "back room", voluntarily or
involuntarily.

I think that Bob is quite correct in stating that VP players are
rarely backroomed, but rather backed off or trespassed. After all,
if they didn't subject the really big players, who took them for a
bundle (think BD) to this treatment, why would they do it to a
lesser winner?

Nevertheless, I do think that inadequate and poorly trained casino
security coupled with a strong anti-advantage player
stance, on the part of the suits, augers badly for every casino
patron, no matter what game they are playing.

Just my opinion, of course. I welcome the imput of others.

Babe