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New Boyd Rule YAH

'Terry' analyzer3 wrote:

Read rule 24 of the 2017 YAH rules found on their website.

Here is Rule 24 and the link to all of the Young At Heart Rules:

24. Boyd reserves the right to determined that anyone who is
deemed in the sole and absolute discretion of the Boyd
management to be an “advantage player,” to be ineligible to
participate in the Promotion or Drawing, or to have his/her
ability to participate in the Promotion or Drawing otherwise
limited. Any such “advantage player” who is already a B
Connected member prior to the commencement of the Promotion
or Drawing may be notified by Boyd prior to the commencement
of the Promotion or Drawing of any such ineligibility or
limitation determination. Otherwise, any such “advantage
player” will be notified by Boyd of any ineligibility or
limitation determination as soon as possible after such
determination is made. An “advantage player” is described as
a skilled or knowledgeable player who will find legal ways
to gain mathematical advantages while gambling.

http://static.boydgaming.net/boydgaming/media/downloads/2017%20YAH%20LVL%20Rules%20(004).pdf

or

https://goo.gl/9DTKnU

or

<a href="https://goo.gl/9DTKnU">
https://goo.gl/9DTKnU</a>

Don’t you think this would fail miserably in court if a determined legal challenge was presented? By their definition, by deciding to play 9/6 JOB rather than 9/5 I am an advantage player. Give me a break.

Now that’s really IN OUR FACE customer service. WOW.

Sad thing is house in Nevada can do what they want without notice. SO STUPID!!

Cheers

Boyd is just doing the same as a lot of other casinos, except that they are stating it in writing .

The money going out is the same, of course, but I guess they would rather see the money going to those
that contribute more to their bottom line.

Playing the game well doesn't make you an advantage player. You are an advantage player if you play the game well, plus only play when there is a promotion to make the game positive.

So if you only go to Sam's Town on YAH days and only play till you max out the bonus points, and the only other times you play are when they have other good promotions, it will not be difficult for a database search to pinpoint you as an advantage player.

Boyd has done a lot of things over the past few years to discourage people from playing there, and I am in no
way agreeing with a lot of their moves, but I do realize that they aren't a charity. If I ran a casino I'd also try to discourage advantage players, because I'd like to stay in business.

Regards
A.P.

···

________________________________
From: "'nudge51' nudge51@cox.net [vpFREE]" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] New Boyd Rule YAH

From: theozarkkid@yahoo.com [vpFREE]
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 11:16 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] New Boyd Rule YAH

Don't you think this would fail miserably in court if a determined

legal challenge was presented? By their definition, by deciding to play 9/6 JOB
rather than 9/5 I am an advantage player. Give me a break.

Posted by: theozarkkid@yahoo.com

First, I thought it to be quite humorous that in your first sentence, you
properly used the word determined, which is opposite of what the legal
department bozos at Boyd Gaming did when they composed their first sentence of
this new and improved rule number 24. How many of you got a giggle when
you read the beginning of the rule and realized that they meant to use the word
determine, not determined? I wonder if somewhere on this gargantuan world
wide inner web thing if there is a site like verbadverdadjectivenoun.com.
This is just the latest chapter of B.B.B.B. (Bumbling Boyd Bozo Brilliance) for
those of you scoring at home.

Let’s look at this using logic, which is something that very few of the
corporate casino behemoths use. This new “restriction” certainly cannot be
a financial decision, as if they plan to continue the YAH (Young At Heart)
promotion, they will STILL be giving away the same $2,500 per week that they
always have. The first name drawn will STILL receive $500 cash, or $550 in
free slot dollars, should the winner prefer that option. The other 20
names drawn will STILL be receiving $100 cash, or $110 in free slot dollars, if
they choose. The same amount of money is STILL coming out of their
promotional budget, so what difference can it make to Sam’s Town who the names
belong to? I once recall a friend having his name called with less than 20
of his tickets in the “virtual drawing drum”. Could it make any difference
to the corporate owner, Boyd Gaming, what names are on this list? I can
easily answer all of these questions, so I imagine that these queries are only a
mystery and food for the thoughtless clueless executive MANGLEMENT of this
property. Why can’t we all go back in time before the late bastard
billionaire, Howard Hughes, and his good bud, H. Parry Thomas (of Thomas &
Mack fame) were the catalysts to convince our Nevada Legislature to change the
rules to permit corporations to own a casino? If you really want to make a
good guestimate as to an initial detriment point for all Nevada gamblers in our
fair state, then you would really have to give this time period some serious
thought. Since the emergence of corporate casino ownership, with a myriad
of bean counting departments included, most of these executive pinheads have
erroneously adopted the business plans of a fortune 500 type business
plan. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!! Think it through. These real
corporate concerns, some publicly traded and some not, offer to their customers
products and/or services. When you consider a gambling entity at it’s
basic core, without fluff and frill, casinos do not offer either. Damn, I
actually miss the mob. This was when “Theo” was only a character on the
Cosby show.

Speaking of going back in time, lets just go back less than 5 years
ago. Since it is a short hop, I didn’t need Sherman, Mr. Peabody, and the
wayback machine. I will pinpoint our stop to April of 2012. This
happens to be the arrival of the latest manglement crew at Sam’s Town, G.M. John
Sou and Slot DUUHH-rector Dennis Martinson. The top dog may be somewhat
confused, as his LinkedIn profile currently states that he is the V.P. and G.M.
at the Freemont. In the summer of 2012, either Boyd or Sam’s hired a world
renowned and extremely intelligent and quite well known instructor to offer
training classes to the clients/players at Sam’s Town Gambling Hall and
Saloon. Since I know this video poker professor extraordinaire personally,
I am not going to insult him by including his name in the same paragraph with
the other two names I have already mentioned. This insightful instructor
proffered up his wisdom to students in about 10 different video poker related
classes during the months of July and August of the year 2012. Since I
alluded to our top teacher being smart, I am reasonably sure that he was paid
for his valuable knowledge sharing in said classes, either by Boyd or by Sam’s
Town.

With no DeLorean needed, let’s head back to the present to the new
year of 2017. I’m guessing that in some kind of a boardroom meeting at the
struggling Sam’s property, after they determined how their current cliff dive
was going, they sat around with, say a dozen suits, flipping quarters.
When player names came up on the monitors, if five or more quarter flips came up
tails, that person will be designated as an “advantage” player. How did it
not come up in this executive excursion in stupidity that the same (expletive)
executives were responsible for training their clients to be better video poker
players, and paid someone to do it? Could this possibly get more ludicrous
than it is? The casino that sponsored training for it’s players, and paid
someone to teach them, are now going to try to penalize these players for
learning to play better. This truth is DEFINITELY stranger than fiction
and seems actually un-American. Is there more on this? You bet. The
next meeting of the N.G.C.B. (Nevada Goofball Control Board) is this
Wednesday. Is what Sam’s is trying to do legal? My feeling is that
it has to be a violation of Regulation 5. This promotion is advertised to
the public all across the valley to the public at large. I am trying to
get info as I type. Those that would like to pose a query to the board can
do so at this email address:
liaison@gcb.nv.gov

Stay tuned.
nudge

AP wrote: “If I ran a casino I’d also try to discourage advantage players, because I’d like to stay in business.”

The problem is that it’s practically impossible to figure out who the advantage players are. What are you going to do, ban everyone who has ever taken a Bob Dancer class? Chances are there are actually very few true advantage players in a Bob Dancer class, think about it, he teaches nothing of value to true advantage players. Bob himself claims to be an advantage player, but then he says he relies heavily on other income to support his gambling. Again, think about it. Several times on his radio show he has confused true EV with actual results which were more luck based, possibly intentionally, but again, you do the math. You might think you already know a bunch of friends who all claim to be advantage players, again, very few if any are probably actual advantage gamblers. You might think you can spot advantage players at your casino, but you will never spot the true travelling pros and by the time you get even close, they are long gone to the next casino or the next town or the next country, the modern day Keyser Soze’s. You might decide to back off everyone who wins this quarter, but then you unintentionally catch all those who lost more the previous quarters, and you miss those who take steps to thwart your tracking cards or don’t even use them.

If I owned a casino and was concerned about losses, I would concentrate on insider cheating, study after study has shown that an order of magnitude more money leaves a casino via insider cheating than by customer cheating or so-called “advantage play”.

How to spot an advantage player.

1. They only play the best games in the casino.
2. They only play when there is a good promotion on.
3. They play a very consistent amount, never going a penny over what the best mailer will bring them.
4. Their playing patterns seldom vary unless a new promotion is on.

If you don't think this would be hard to spot, then I think you are wrong.

I agree that there are not a lot of advantage players around. I don't believe that they hit a casino and never
return. I believe that most casinos worry too much about advantage players. I agree that those taking Dancer's classes are not advantage players. I agree that a lot of casinos don't differentiate between players that get on a lucky streak versus true advantage players, but I think that is because they don't have a sufficiently sophisticated system to spot the patterns of an advantage player, they usually just look at winners and losers over a set period of time.

Regards
A.P.

···

________________________________
From: "nightoftheiguana2000@yahoo.com [vpFREE]" <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 9, 2017 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] New Boyd Rule YAH

AP wrote: "If I ran a casino I'd also try to discourage advantage players, because I'd like to stay in business."

The problem is that it's practically impossible to figure out who the advantage players are. What are you going to do, ban everyone who has ever taken a Bob Dancer class? Chances are there are actually very few true advantage players in a Bob Dancer class, think about it, he teaches nothing of value to true advantage players. Bob himself claims to be an advantage player, but then he says he relies heavily on other income to support his gambling. Again, think about it. Several times on his radio show he has confused true EV with actual results which were more luck based, possibly intentionally, but again, you do the math. You might think you already know a bunch of friends who all claim to be advantage players, again, very few if any are probably actual advantage gamblers. You might think you can spot advantage players at your casino, but you will never spot the true travelling pros and by the time you get even close, they are long gone to the next casino or the next town or the next country, the modern day Keyser Soze's. You might decide to back off everyone who wins this quarter, but then you unintentionally catch all those who lost more the previous quarters, and you miss those who take steps to thwart your tracking cards or don't even use them.

If I owned a casino and was concerned about losses, I would concentrate on insider cheating, study after study has shown that an order of magnitude more money leaves a casino via insider cheating than by customer cheating or so-called "advantage play".

Interesting post. What is especially interesting is the parallel between the decline of VP and the 2008 financial crisis, because, whether intended or not, you have highlighted, but not fully explained, the root cause of both.

Like the casino business, Wall Street firms were once restricted to partnerships or single owners. Each had their own money directly invested in the business, and their earnings - profits - depended directly on the decisions they made. Whether it was to raise the limits for a particular whale on a holiday weekend, or whether to invest in the stocks or bonds of a particular company, the outcome of that decision hit directly to the bottom line.

Once corporate ownership was allowed, however, the capital belonging to the directly affected owners was withdrawn, replaced by the capital that was raised from public offerings. Instead of an entrepreneurial owner, with skin in the game, the running of the corporation was left in the hands of the management class, typically protected from downside (personal) risk by a multi-year contract, which specified not only the base salary and various perks to which the manager was entitled, but also the structure of the bonuses that could be paid.

Limited to the length of the contract, say 3-5 years, these bonuses necessarily were short-term in nature. Instead of looking at the long-term health and growth of the enterprise, these bonuses were generally dependent on annual revenues, earnings per share or some other narrowly defined targets. There was no risk (personal risk, that is) because there was the guaranteed base salary. But risk to the enterprise could certainly be taken, with no personal risk involved, because if the risk that was taken paid off, then bonuses were triggered. If the risk went south, oh well, sorry about that shareholders, that sucks for you, but if you don’t like it, then just trigger my golden parachute.

On the promotions side, to wrap up, cutting back on expenses just makes the per share earnings look better, again triggering the bonuses. If players didn’t come back or come back as often, that was more of a longer term effect, not impacting next years bonus to any great extent.

Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you can’t win. -Lazarus Long

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. -Yogi Berra

There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein

···

Why can’t we all go back in time before the late bastard billionaire, Howard Hughes, and his good bud, H. Parry Thomas (of Thomas & Mack fame) were the catalysts to convince our Nevada Legislature to change the rules to permit corporations to own a casino? If you really want to make a good guestimate as to an initial detriment point for all Nevada gamblers in our fair state, then you would really have to give this time period some serious thought. Since the emergence of corporate casino ownership, with a myriad of bean counting departments included, most of these executive pinheads have erroneously adopted the business plans of a fortune 500 type business plan. Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!! Think it through. These real corporate concerns, some publicly traded and some not, offer to their customers products and/or services. When you consider a gambling entity at it’s basic core, without fluff and frill, casinos do not offer either. Damn, I actually miss the mob. This was when “Theo” was only a character on the Cosby show.

GURU, Right on the money…

While perusing posts, I spotted your writing. That’s the best explanation, I’ve heard, of fall of vp in casinos,

including slots. States like Pennsylvania are really cashing in though. Tightening up equipment doesn’t hurt Pa Casinos. There is no competition. The state saw fit to limit gambling houses into areas. VP machines 2 - 3% casino win with perfect play. Can’t get a seat at VP on weekends. High limit rooms worse. There might be one or 2 exceptions. Poconos might have one exception, but never been there.

When u have no skin in game, we know the likely result…

Cheers…Jeep