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Netiquette Guidelines

I did no such thing. I merely hit the reply button.

I did not attack you personally. I did challenge your statements that
VLT's are Bingo-based and that the return on those machines is
calculated to be 50%, both patently false.

I do not attack people, only false statements.

···

At 08:07 AM 10/17/2006, you wrote:

Mr. Coleman,

If you are forwarding or re-posting a message, don't change the original
wording. See Netiquette Guidelines @
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Rules_EQ.htm
<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Rules_EQ.htm>

You must be the vpFREE Administrator. Only the Administrator could have
changed the text of the original message from:

>However, if you prefer not to be confused by facts that is your
>right and your choice. Only please don't give invalid metaphors >and
incorrect "facts".

to

> > However, if you vpFREE, FREEvpFREE, vpFREE_Online that is your
right
> > and your choice. Only please don't give invalid metaphors and
> > incorrect "facts".

BTW, CHANGING ORIGINAL TEXT IS A VIOLATION OF THE VPFREE "TOS."
Please follow the vpFREE rules/ Terms of Service.

— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpF…@…com> ,
"auditor1966" <auditor1966@…> wrote:
>
>
> Mr. Coleman,
>
> It would have been more instructive and helpful for you to have
included
> the links (sources) such as:
>
> Indian Casinos (Class II Gaming)
> http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Indian.htm
<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Indian.htm>
>
<<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Indian.htm>http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Indian.htm
<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Indian.htm> >
>
> or VTL'S http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_VLT.htm
<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_VLT.htm>
>
<<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_VLT.htm>http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_VLT.htm
<http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_VLT.htm> >
>
>
> I appreciate your response but I could have done without the last
> paragraph in your reply.
>
> I did qualify my remarks with the words: "I perceive".
>
> If you felt my post was inappropriate, you could have privately
emailed
> me to consider deleting it or emailed the the vpFREE administrator
to
> remove it to vpFREE, FREEvpFREE, or vpFREE_Online .
>
> Auditor1966
>
>
>
> — In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpF…@…com> , Bill
Coleman <vphobby2@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm afraid you totally don't understand.
> >
> > Most VLT's in this country operate exactly like Nevada machines.
> > There are insignificant differences.
> >
> > In Washington Native casinos and NY racinos the VP VLT's operate
like
> > scratch-off lottery tickets (with MUCH higher returns).
> >
> > NO VLT operates like Bingo.
> >
> > Only Class II Native machines run Bingo and in almost every case
> > display the underlying Bingo card on the machine. (A very few
> > jursidictions don't require the display). The return on Class II
> > machines is similar to those in comparable Class III
jurisdictions as
> > I've said before.
> >
> > However, if you vpFREE, FREEvpFREE, vpFREE_Online that is your
right
> > and your choice. Only please don't give invalid metaphors and
> > incorrect "facts".
> >
> > B
> >
> > At 11:54 AM 10/16/2006, you wrote:
> > >If I treat the Video Lottery like Bingo, I perceive this type of
> > >arrangement…
> > >
> > >Imagine a Roulette Layout where you can only bet the inside 0,
00, or
> > >1 - 36.
> > >
> > >Imagine that you can only bet one number and one unit for that
> number.
> > >
> > >Imagine that the ball is not dropped until every number is
covered
> > >with a bet.
> > >
> > >Imagine if you win, you get half of the bets. That's what I
think of
> > >when I hear Bingo… Someone always wins, eventually and the
> > >winnings are half of the total bets placed. 19/38.
> > >
> > >Now, what if VLT's had to have at least half of the vp screen or
> > >video slot display a bingo card…
> > >
> > >The population of numbers are being drawn from the central
computer.
> > >When someones card is full (in a line) horizontally or vertically
> > >diagonally or all four corners, he wins; but he does not always
win
> > >the top prize or jackpot.
> > >
> > >What determines the prize amount when you have filled up
your "bingo
> > >card"?
> > >
> > >— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpF…@…com> ,
Bill Coleman vphobby2@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It is VERY unlikely that the returns are much below 90%. Most
> > > > jurisdictions require a minimum payback of 75% but in
actuality
> few
> > > > or no machines are manufactured with that low a return. I was
told
> > >by
> > > > an official what the average return on a scratch-off based
VLT was
> > > > and I really don't remember but it was either in the high
80's or
> > >low
> > > > 90's – comparable to slots everywhere.
> > > >
> > > > You wrote:
> > > > Not only is Northern Quest in Spokane a smoke infested old
folks
> > > > home, now finally someone has attached a number to the crap
they
> > > > offer in their machines. To think, I actually printed a
strategy
> > >and
> > > > tried to play there for a while - over $4000 coin in a few
years
> > > > ago. Deceptive is not the right word, fraud comes to mind
though!
> > > > >
> > > > > Jigger
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "auditor1966" <auditor1966@...> wrote:
>
>
> Mr. Coleman,
>
> It would have been more instructive and helpful for you to have
included
> the links (sources) such as:
>
> Indian Casinos (Class II Gaming)
> http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Indian.htm
> <http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_Indian.htm>
>
> or VTL'S http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_VLT.htm
> <http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ_VLT.htm>
>
>
> I appreciate your response but I could have done without the last
> paragraph in your reply.
>
> I did qualify my remarks with the words: "I perceive".
>
> If you felt my post was inappropriate, you could have privately
emailed
> me to consider deleting it or emailed the the vpFREE administrator to
> remove it to vpFREE, FREEvpFREE, or vpFREE_Online .
>
> Auditor1966
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman vphobby2@ wrote:
> >
> > I'm afraid you totally don't understand.
> >
> > Most VLT's in this country operate exactly like Nevada machines.
> > There are insignificant differences.
> >
> > In Washington Native casinos and NY racinos the VP VLT's operate
like
> > scratch-off lottery tickets (with MUCH higher returns).
> >
> > NO VLT operates like Bingo.
> >
> > Only Class II Native machines run Bingo and in almost every case
> > display the underlying Bingo card on the machine. (A very few
> > jursidictions don't require the display). The return on Class II
> > machines is similar to those in comparable Class III jurisdictions
as
> > I've said before.
> >
> > However, if you vpFREE, FREEvpFREE, vpFREE_Online that is your right
> > and your choice. Only please don't give invalid metaphors and
> > incorrect "facts".
> >
> > B
> >
> > At 11:54 AM 10/16/2006, you wrote:
> > >If I treat the Video Lottery like Bingo, I perceive this type of
> > >arrangement....
> > >
> > >Imagine a Roulette Layout where you can only bet the inside 0, 00,
or
> > >1 - 36.
> > >
> > >Imagine that you can only bet one number and one unit for that
> number.
> > >
> > >Imagine that the ball is not dropped until every number is covered
> > >with a bet.
> > >
> > >Imagine if you win, you get half of the bets. That's what I think
of
> > >when I hear Bingo.... Someone always wins, eventually and the
> > >winnings are half of the total bets placed. 19/38.
> > >
> > >Now, what if VLT's had to have at least half of the vp screen or
> > >video slot display a bingo card...
> > >
> > >The population of numbers are being drawn from the central
computer.
> > >When someones card is full (in a line) horizontally or vertically
> > >diagonally or all four corners, he wins; but he does not always win
> > >the top prize or jackpot.
> > >
> > >What determines the prize amount when you have filled up your
"bingo
> > >card"?
> > >
> > >--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman vphobby2@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > It is VERY unlikely that the returns are much below 90%. Most
> > > > jurisdictions require a minimum payback of 75% but in actuality
> few
> > > > or no machines are manufactured with that low a return. I was
told
> > >by
> > > > an official what the average return on a scratch-off based VLT
was
> > > > and I really don't remember but it was either in the high 80's
or
> > >low
> > > > 90's -- comparable to slots everywhere.
> > > >
> > > > You wrote:
> > > > Not only is Northern Quest in Spokane a smoke infested old folks
> > > > home, now finally someone has attached a number to the crap they
> > > > offer in their machines. To think, I actually printed a strategy
> > >and
> > > > tried to play there for a while - over $4000 coin in a few years
> > > > ago. Deceptive is not the right word, fraud comes to mind
though!
> > > > >
> > > > > Jigger
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On the subject of "netiquette", please drop any portion of quoted
prior contributions that isn't necessary to understand the context of
your post.

- H.

Mr. Coleman,
   
  Thank you. I understand.
   
  Can you tell me on what principle Pachislo machines operate? (e.g. RNG, etc.) It seems that payback percentage can be adjusted among six different presets with a key. Compare that to an EPROM that must be soldered to the motherboard, per NJ CCC Rules.
   
  I respect your opinion.
   
  Please note the Legal/ Auto-Stop paradox. Outcome is not "Skill Stop". It is predetermined the moment the "Spin" button is pressed. See links, below. Thanks.
   
  http://www.pachislo.com/
   
  http://www.pachislo.com/menu/legal.html
   
  http://www.pachislo.com/pachislo/autostop.html

···

Bill Coleman <vphobby2@cox.net> wrote:

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry, I have no idea. It appears they are standard slot machines
from their website.

They are not listed as exhibitors at G2E next month so I doubt we can
find out anything there.

What jurisdiction did you see their machines in?

B

Can you tell me on what principle Pachislo machines operate? (e.g. RNG,
etc.) It seems that payback percentage can be adjusted among six
different presets with a key. Compare that to an EPROM that must be
soldered to the motherboard, per NJ CCC Rules.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For the uninitiated, pachislo are basically Japanese slot machines
(the name is a combination of pachinko and slot). You can usually buy
them cheap on online auction sites or directly from an importer.

They are generally token-in/token-out machines. They differ from
american slots because each reel has a stop button (they don't stop
automatically, or, if they do, after a very long wait), giving the
illusion that you have some control over the outcome. That is why
they are sometimes called "skill-stop" machined. And you probably do
have some control...you can probably force the machine to choose
between a small number of stops on the reels, but the RNG will have
already determined if you are a winner. So if you are a winner, it
will pick a winner from the reel. Otherwise, it picks a loser. If
you need any evidence of this, most allow you to control the payout
from between 60% and 125% (probably not possible if skill is really a
factor). They are fun to play, and fun to tinker with, but I doubt we
will ever see one in an American casino.

- John

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@...> wrote:

Sorry, I have no idea. It appears they are standard slot machines
from their website.

They are not listed as exhibitors at G2E next month so I doubt we can
find out anything there.

What jurisdiction did you see their machines in?

B

>Can you tell me on what principle Pachislo machines operate? (e.g. RNG,
>etc.) It seems that payback percentage can be adjusted among six
>different presets with a key. Compare that to an EPROM that must be
>soldered to the motherboard, per NJ CCC Rules.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Murphyfields,

It seems that payback percentage of the pachislo (pachisuro) machines
can be adjusted among six different presets with a key.

How does the key work?

I associate a key with a mechanical device such as an adjustible,
wind-up clock, not a digital or electronic device controlled by RNG.

Auditor1966

Compare that to an EPROM that must be soldered to the motherboard, per
NJ CCC Rules.

For the uninitiated, pachislo are basically Japanese slot machines
(the name is a combination of pachinko and slot). You can usually buy
them cheap on online auction sites or directly from an importer.

They are generally token-in/token-out machines. They differ from
american slots because each reel has a stop button (they don't stop
automatically, or, if they do, after a very long wait), giving the
illusion that you have some control over the outcome. That is why
they are sometimes called "skill-stop" machined. And you probably do
have some control...you can probably force the machine to choose
between a small number of stops on the reels, but the RNG will have
already determined if you are a winner. So if you are a winner, it
will pick a winner from the reel. Otherwise, it picks a loser. If
you need any evidence of this, most allow you to control the payout
from between 60% and 125% (probably not possible if skill is really a
factor). They are fun to play, and fun to tinker with, but I doubt we
will ever see one in an American casino.

- John

>
> Sorry, I have no idea. It appears they are standard slot machines
> from their website.
>
> They are not listed as exhibitors at G2E next month so I doubt we

can

> find out anything there.
>
> What jurisdiction did you see their machines in?
>
> B
>
>
> >Can you tell me on what principle Pachislo machines operate? (e.g.

RNG,

> >etc.) It seems that payback percentage can be adjusted among six
> >different presets with a key. Compare that to an EPROM that must be
> >soldered to the motherboard, per NJ CCC Rules.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman vphobby2@ wrote:

I am no expert on these things, but have played with them. If I
remember correctly, each machine basically has 6 "EPROMS" stored in
them. Turning the key allows you to select one of the 6. While the
key is turned, you push a button, and each push cycles to the next
setting. A digital display cycles 1 through 6. Then take out the key
and the new setting takes ahold.

Don't try to sey a machine based on these instructions, since they are
pretty sketchy, but it gives the general ideal.

- John

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "auditor1966" <auditor1966@...> wrote:

Dear Murphyfields,

It seems that payback percentage of the pachislo (pachisuro) machines
can be adjusted among six different presets with a key.

How does the key work?

I associate a key with a mechanical device such as an adjustible,
wind-up clock, not a digital or electronic device controlled by RNG.

Auditor1966

Compare that to an EPROM that must be soldered to the motherboard, per
NJ CCC Rules.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "murphyfields" <jkludge@> wrote:
>
> For the uninitiated, pachislo are basically Japanese slot machines
> (the name is a combination of pachinko and slot). You can usually buy
> them cheap on online auction sites or directly from an importer.
>
> They are generally token-in/token-out machines. They differ from
> american slots because each reel has a stop button (they don't stop
> automatically, or, if they do, after a very long wait), giving the
> illusion that you have some control over the outcome. That is why
> they are sometimes called "skill-stop" machined. And you probably do
> have some control...you can probably force the machine to choose
> between a small number of stops on the reels, but the RNG will have
> already determined if you are a winner. So if you are a winner, it
> will pick a winner from the reel. Otherwise, it picks a loser. If
> you need any evidence of this, most allow you to control the payout
> from between 60% and 125% (probably not possible if skill is really a
> factor). They are fun to play, and fun to tinker with, but I doubt we
> will ever see one in an American casino.
>
> - John
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman vphobby2@ wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I have no idea. It appears they are standard slot machines
> > from their website.
> >
> > They are not listed as exhibitors at G2E next month so I doubt we
can
> > find out anything there.
> >
> > What jurisdiction did you see their machines in?
> >
> > B
> >
> >
> > >Can you tell me on what principle Pachislo machines operate? (e.g.
RNG,
> > >etc.) It seems that payback percentage can be adjusted among six
> > >different presets with a key. Compare that to an EPROM that must be
> > >soldered to the motherboard, per NJ CCC Rules.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]