vpFREE2 Forums

Need Help Calculating Return

#1

I've tried to calculate the return of the game below using the "User
Defined" feature of BDPW, but keep getting an answer that seems
incorrect. Would appreciate it if someone else would take a stab at
it. This is a DDB variant. All payoffs below are 1 coin. I came
across this game today ... it was new to me. Also, would appreciate
any suggestions on what I may be doing wrong.

RF: 800
SF: 100
Quad Aces w/2,3,4: 500
Quad 2,3,4 w/A,2,3,4: 200
Quad Aces: 200
Quad 2,3,4: 100
Quad 5-K: 80
Full House: 12
Flush: 9
Straight: 6
3 of Kind: 4
2 Pair: 2
2 Aces: 2
J,Q,K Pair: 1

#2

brumar_lv wrote:

I've tried to calculate the return of the game below using the "User
Defined" feature of BDPW, but keep getting an answer that seems
incorrect. Would appreciate it if someone else would take a stab at
it. This is a DDB variant. Also, would appreciate any suggestions
on what I may be doing wrong.

RF: 800
SF: 100
Quad Aces w/2,3,4: 500
Quad 2,3,4 w/A,2,3,4: 200
Quad Aces: 200
Quad 2,3,4: 100
Quad 5-K: 80
Full House: 12
Flush: 9
Straight: 6
3 of Kind: 4
2 Pair: 2
2 Aces: 2
J,Q,K Pair: 1

I don't need to analyze this. The lower portion of the paytable
(below quads) is WAY stronger than 9/6 Jacks. The only context in
which this paytable might make some sense would be if those quad
values are 5-coin payouts.

Otherwise, if this is from an internet website, this is one gift horse
I wouldn't look in the mouth. It's likely infested with a parasite
that'll suck you dry.

- H.

#3

Could this be a paytable of a new game I saw at the Rampart
called "4-5 poker":

You are dealt 4 cards instead of five----then you can draw to the
hand to make the five card hand.

I took a double take at the paytables---until I saw you only are
dealt 4 cards

I've tried to calculate the return of the game below using

the "User

Defined" feature of BDPW, but keep getting an answer that seems
incorrect. Would appreciate it if someone else would take a stab

at

it. This is a DDB variant. All payoffs below are 1 coin. I came
across this game today ... it was new to me. Also, would

appreciate

···

any suggestions on what I may be doing wrong.

RF: 800
SF: 100
Quad Aces w/2,3,4: 500
Quad 2,3,4 w/A,2,3,4: 200
Quad Aces: 200
Quad 2,3,4: 100
Quad 5-K: 80
Full House: 12
Flush: 9
Straight: 6
3 of Kind: 4
2 Pair: 2
2 Aces: 2
J,Q,K Pair: 1

#4

I'm having trouble calculating this return. Perhaps, you could send
me a private e-mail telling me where the machine is located and I
will go and investigate further.

I've tried to calculate the return of the game below using

the "User

Defined" feature of BDPW, but keep getting an answer that seems
incorrect. Would appreciate it if someone else would take a stab

at

it. This is a DDB variant. All payoffs below are 1 coin. I came
across this game today ... it was new to me. Also, would

appreciate

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@...> wrote:

any suggestions on what I may be doing wrong.

RF: 800
SF: 100
Quad Aces w/2,3,4: 500
Quad 2,3,4 w/A,2,3,4: 200
Quad Aces: 200
Quad 2,3,4: 100
Quad 5-K: 80
Full House: 12
Flush: 9
Straight: 6
3 of Kind: 4
2 Pair: 2
2 Aces: 2
J,Q,K Pair: 1

#5

<smile>

....BL

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mickeycrimm" <mickeycrimm@...> wrote:

I'm having trouble calculating this return. Perhaps, you could send
me a private e-mail telling me where the machine is located and I
will go and investigate further.

#6

Harry Porter wrote:
<snip>
Otherwise, if this is from an internet website, this is one gift
horseI wouldn't look in the mouth. It's likely infested with a
parasite that'll suck you dry.

···

=========================================================
I was looking at the Wizard's blacklist of online casinos and just
had to check one out, so I went to One Click & Play and here is
their VP paytable for JoB.

RF: 20 (not a typo, that's twenty!)
SF: 15
Quads: 10
Full House: 7
Flush: 5
Straight: 4
3 of Kind: 3
2 Pair: 2
High Pair: 1

That's a whopping 90.6% payback. They did say they gave a bonus of
$25 for just playing 100 hands of VP, but I didn't investigate the
denomination or anything else...that's as close to the flame as I
was willing to get!
Jeff

#7

With acknowlegment to the honorable vpfae for his fine progressives reports for Fiesta Rancho and Texas Station:
   
  Hi-limit progressives as of 2:50pm on 3/2/06:
    (8) $5 progressives: $24,763
  8/5 JOB (97.3% at reset), 9/6 DB (97.8% at reset), 9/5 DDB (97.9% at reset)
   
  Just for kicks:
    (1) $100 8/5 JOB prog: approx $414,000
  For the database, I'd also like to report that there are (3) $1/$2/$5 3/5/10 play machines with 9/6 JOB just outside of hi-limit.
   
  vpfree2006

···

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#8

I forgot to mention that 9/6 JOB is not available at the $1 3-play level, but I believe it is at all others.

vpfree2006 <vpfree2006@yahoo.com> wrote: For the database, I'd also like to report that there are (3) $1/$2/$5 3/5/10 play machines with 9/6 JOB just outside of hi-limit.

···

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#9

And only 1.87 variance. n0 is 210 hands if I didn't get the numbers
too wrong. Play for an hour and there's almost no chance to break
even.

JBQ

···

On 3/2/06, jeffcole2003oct <jeff-cole@comcast.net> wrote:

That's a whopping 90.6% payback.

#10

You are correct! I saw it at the Rampart, but I didn't notice the 4
card feature. I came up with a 185% return, which I knew had to be
bogus.

Is this how it works ... you are dealt 4 cards, choose which to hold,
and then get a 5th card plus your discards are replaced? Is there a
way to calculate the return? This is an entirely new game to me. At
the Rampart it comes in 25cent, $1, and $2 denominations, and 3-4 other
game choices using the 4-5 concept.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2" <sheiky2@...> wrote:

Could this be a paytable of a new game I saw at the Rampart
called "4-5 poker":

You are dealt 4 cards instead of five----then you can draw to the
hand to make the five card hand.

I took a double take at the paytables---until I saw you only are
dealt 4 cards

#11

  Just for kicks:
    (1) $100 8/5 JOB prog: approx $414,000
  For the database, I'd also like to report that there are (3)

$1/$2/$5 3/5/10 play machines with 9/6 JOB just outside of hi-limit.

   
Thanks for the report, let me know when it hits $1M and I'll bring in
the team to lock up the bank!

Seriously, one high-limit bank of interest is the $10 7-5 BP at
Bellagio. If I remember correctly, the meter is 1%, and it does get
some play from time to time.

Theo on the 9-6 Jacks throughout MGM Mirage is really small, maybe 1%.
Be prepared to put in at least $250K ci trip if you want to do the
gourmet/RFB thing. I once put in a $200K trip playing $25 triple play,
the hosts and management were unimpressed. Dancer taught them well...

···

_________________________________________________________________________

coming sooner than a plus play on any MGM high limit progressive:
www.paladingaming.net

#12

Sorry for the off topic post, but can anyone tell me where to find $2 or $3 BJ in LV? Golden Gate? I know the Orleans used to deal one $3 game most of the time. Slots a Fun?
   
  Taking my rookie son and a college buddy down for NASCAR next week and I want them to experience some table action as well as some VP.
   
  Thanks!
   
  SK

···

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#13

Slots of Fun, pretty sure. Sahara, during off-peak hours. (Don't know
if wither still have their $1 games that they had a year or so ago.)

Ky Hick

Sorry for the off topic post, but can anyone tell me where to find

$2 or $3 BJ in LV? Golden Gate? I know the Orleans used to deal one
$3 game most of the time. Slots a Fun?

   
  Taking my rookie son and a college buddy down for NASCAR next week

and I want them to experience some table action as well as some VP.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kent <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:

   
  Thanks!
   
  SK

#14

Try some of the downtown casinos like Four Queens, etc..

Karen

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Kent <bayfieldkent@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 20:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [vpFREE] low limit BJ question

Sorry for the off topic post, but can anyone tell me where to find $2 or $3 BJ
in LV? Golden Gate? I know the Orleans used to deal one $3 game most of the
time. Slots a Fun?
   
  Taking my rookie son and a college buddy down for NASCAR next week and I want
them to experience some table action as well as some VP.
   
  Thanks!
   
  SK

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#15

Sorry for the off topic post, but can anyone tell me where to find

$2 or $3 BJ in LV? Golden Gate? I know the Orleans used to deal one
$3 game most of the time. Slots a Fun?

   
Was at the Four Queens two weeks ago and there is definitely $3
blackjack. I also saw some low limit (under $5) at Slots of Fun. Four
Queens is all 3:2, Slots of Fun MIGHT have been 6:5.

Jackie

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kent <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:

#16

Is this how it works ... you are dealt 4 cards, choose which to hold,
and then get a 5th card plus your discards are replaced? Is there a
way to calculate the return? This is an entirely new game to me. At
the Rampart it comes in 25cent, $1, and $2 denominations, and 3-4

other

game choices using the 4-5 concept.

I did a quick calculation (this means it's probably wrong) of the DDB4
paytable. I came up with 98.7% payback with some very long cycle times.

rf - 92K hands
aces/kicker - 29K hands
234/kicker - 14K hands

Hopefully, someone else is also looking at this so we can come up with
a reasonable confidence level.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@...> wrote:

#17

I know some have already responded with good info (although I didn't
see much below $5 downtown last trip), but the best place to check
all possibilities is probably the "Cheapo Vegas" website. They have
a "cheapest gambling" section on the menu @ left side of the page.

jedd

Sorry for the off topic post, but can anyone tell me where to find

$2 or $3 BJ in LV? Golden Gate? I know the Orleans used to deal
one $3 game most of the time. Slots a Fun?

   
  Taking my rookie son and a college buddy down for NASCAR next

week and I want them to experience some table action as well as some
VP.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kent <bayfieldkent@...> wrote:

   
  Thanks!
   
  SK

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Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

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#18

$1 Blackjack at Ellis Island
10AM - 2PM - Monday through Friday

Regards,

Scot

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Steve Kent
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2006 8:53 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] low limit BJ question

Sorry for the off topic post, but can anyone tell me where to find $2 or $3
BJ in LV? Golden Gate? I know the Orleans used to deal one $3 game most of
the time. Slots a Fun?

  Taking my rookie son and a college buddy down for NASCAR next week and I
want them to experience some table action as well as some VP.

  Thanks!

  SK

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail
Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

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#19

I did a quick calculation (this means it's probably wrong) of the

DDB4 > paytable. I came up with 98.7% payback with some very long cycle
times.

rf - 92K hands
aces/kicker - 29K hands
234/kicker - 14K hands

Hopefully, someone else is also looking at this so we can come up

with a reasonable confidence level.

Dick

I hope someone can confirm your calculation too. I posted some of the
reasons why this game is difficult, in spite of the pay table. But I
forgot to mention another reason. There are probably more "redeals"
with 4-5, but a redeal in 4-5 means only 9 cards are selected, versus
10 normally. Surely that significantly reduces the odds of a good
hand.

How did you get 92K for the RF cycle?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

#20

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I hope someone can confirm your calculation too. I posted some of

the

reasons why this game is difficult, in spite of the pay table. But

I

forgot to mention another reason. There are probably

more "redeals"

with 4-5, but a redeal in 4-5 means only 9 cards are selected,

versus

10 normally. Surely that significantly reduces the odds of a good
hand.

True. Essentially, every draw has more chances for bad hands. The
most obvious is the 4RF deal which now has 48-1 odds against hitting.
However, this carries forward to almost every other hold as well.

How did you get 92K for the RF cycle?

I modified a little program that produces these results
automatically. One the reasons I suspect my results are a little off
is that some of the numbers the program puts out don't add up like
they should.

Here's the full results:

          Freq % Hands % return
rf 2.912230e+00 0.001076 92961.402239 0.860572
sf 1.395141e+01 0.005153 19404.851841 0.515335
Acek 9.319297e+00 0.003442 29049.937119 1.721174
low4kk 1.990783e+01 0.007354 13598.923071 1.470705
aces 2.858938e+01 0.010560 9469.425734 2.112060
low4k 5.871553e+01 0.021688 4610.790561 2.168825
k4 2.506528e+02 0.092586 1080.079660 7.406861
fh 1.366086e+03 0.504603 198.175700 6.055233
fl 1.884571e+03 0.696120 143.653421 6.265079
st 1.503189e+03 0.555246 180.100396 3.331475
k3 1.440461e+04 5.320752 18.794334 21.283010
p2 2.216276e+04 8.186449 12.215309 16.372897
paces 1.579790e+04 5.835406 17.136769 11.670811
hp1 3.875840e+04 14.316519 6.984938 14.316519
zip 1.744634e+05 64.443047 1.551758 0.000000

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@...> wrote: