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Native American Casinos

Personally I feel that without state regulation to govern Native American
Casinos they are ripe for corruption and possibly influence by the mob who
would love to exploit any opportunity by naive casino owners. There was
recently an article in Time magazine about these casinos from the viewpoint
that in some instances many tribe members benefit, but in others some members
are excluded from the profits, and some tribes have had
corruption and infighting inside the tribes. The article didn't deal with
the inherent problems of casinos that don't have any oversight from a
government agency.

While I have no actual information on corruption or "cheating" or "unfair
machines," it just seems logical that some of this MAY be occurring. It is
just like internet gambling, without oversight, how do you KNOW that the
internet casinos are solvent, will pay all bets, are dealing fairly, are
truthful in their advertisements?

Gambling in many parts of the U.S.A. was unregulated for many years, and the
result was a lot of corruption and mob influence. Now with government
regulation, big business has taken over, and we can be pretty much assured of
truth in advertising (at least usually), fair dealing of table games, and no
skimming of profits. Regulated casinos have no incentive to be anything
except fair - they know the will rake in profits just be the "true" odds of
their games. They actually have an incentive in prohibiting cheating both by
players and by corrupt dealers.

Without regulation, there is more of an incentive for both the casinos (or
whoever is running them) and for dealers to cheat. Where there is cash
flowing in great quantities without regulation, some corruption is bound to
follow. It could well be that in some instances the Native American tribes
are also being cheated by whoever they hire to run their casinos, unless they
have very strict oversight of what is going on. (I have no data to go on
this, but it could happen).

So it would seem to be that a gambler who can choose where to gamble in
general would be better off to play at casinos where he knows there is
government oversight and regulation, and to avoid places which might not be
quite as stringent in their honesty. Such places might include Native
American casinos, cruise ships, internet casinos, and some states where
casinos are poorly regulated.

However if you want to play in these less regulated venues and have fun, go
ahead, but just be aware that your results may be unexpectedly "gaffed" in
some way. Also, should a dispute arise, you may have no legal recourse (as
has been the case with some internet casinos who didn't pay jackpots, and
with some Native American tribes who have sometimes used their "soverign
nation" status to avoid lawsuits/payments [I'm not talking about gaming here
- I'm talking about other activities, such as a person doing work for a tribe
who might have a dispute about payment - he can't sue in a state "small
claims court" or similar, and may have a difficult time finding redress -
their have been some instances of this happening.].

Make your choice of where to play just as knowledgeable as your choice of
what to play (like which paytable is good).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A good summary of the main concerns, misscraps. A few days ago someone
opined that tribal lands are not truly sovereign, the implication being that
some government oversight would be possible if the government really wanted
to get involved.

I sent an email to Nelson Rose, who specializes in legal gambling matters
and has consulted both tribes and governments, as well as gambling interests
around the world. Hopefully I'll hear back from him soon and maybe he can
clear up some questions pertaining to exactly how immune from oversight the
tribal casinos really are, and what, if anything, state and federal govts
are doing now to tie up all the loose ends.

There are a lot of us who support tribal gaming, but who also would like to
see some guarantees of a fair game.

lb

···

Personally I feel that without state regulation to govern Native American
Casinos they are ripe for corruption and possibly influence by the mob who
would love to exploit any opportunity by naive casino owners......... <

Linda, as usual , very well said. I think you have managed to relate the
beliefs of many in an informative "pc" manner. Now if you could go to work
and plant the seeds for some great Palms promotions around Memorial Day, I
will be eternally indebted to you! Due to personal circumstances, I had to
cancel my "Valentine" trip, so I will be anxiously counting down the days
until May 22.

···

***************
rastisrulz

Help save positive expectation Video Poker
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven/

----- Original Message -----
From: <misscraps@aol.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 12:21 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Native American Casinos

Personally I feel that without state regulation to govern Native American
Casinos they are ripe for corruption and possibly influence by the mob who
would love to exploit any opportunity by naive casino owners. There was
recently an article in Time magazine about these casinos from the

viewpoint

that in some instances many tribe members benefit, but in others some

members

are excluded from the profits, and some tribes have had
corruption and infighting inside the tribes. The article didn't deal with
the inherent problems of casinos that don't have any oversight from a
government agency.

While I have no actual information on corruption or "cheating" or "unfair
machines," it just seems logical that some of this MAY be occurring. It

is

just like internet gambling, without oversight, how do you KNOW that the
internet casinos are solvent, will pay all bets, are dealing fairly, are
truthful in their advertisements?

Gambling in many parts of the U.S.A. was unregulated for many years, and

the

result was a lot of corruption and mob influence. Now with government
regulation, big business has taken over, and we can be pretty much assured

of

truth in advertising (at least usually), fair dealing of table games, and

no

skimming of profits. Regulated casinos have no incentive to be anything
except fair - they know the will rake in profits just be the "true" odds

of

their games. They actually have an incentive in prohibiting cheating both

by

players and by corrupt dealers.

Without regulation, there is more of an incentive for both the casinos (or
whoever is running them) and for dealers to cheat. Where there is cash
flowing in great quantities without regulation, some corruption is bound

to

follow. It could well be that in some instances the Native American

tribes

are also being cheated by whoever they hire to run their casinos, unless

they

have very strict oversight of what is going on. (I have no data to go on
this, but it could happen).

So it would seem to be that a gambler who can choose where to gamble in
general would be better off to play at casinos where he knows there is
government oversight and regulation, and to avoid places which might not

be

quite as stringent in their honesty. Such places might include Native
American casinos, cruise ships, internet casinos, and some states where
casinos are poorly regulated.

However if you want to play in these less regulated venues and have fun,

go

ahead, but just be aware that your results may be unexpectedly "gaffed" in
some way. Also, should a dispute arise, you may have no legal recourse

(as

has been the case with some internet casinos who didn't pay jackpots, and
with some Native American tribes who have sometimes used their "soverign
nation" status to avoid lawsuits/payments [I'm not talking about gaming

here

- I'm talking about other activities, such as a person doing work for a

tribe

who might have a dispute about payment - he can't sue in a state "small
claims court" or similar, and may have a difficult time finding redress -
their have been some instances of this happening.].

Make your choice of where to play just as knowledgeable as your choice of
what to play (like which paytable is good).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Hopefully I'll hear back from him soon and maybe he can

clear up some questions pertaining to exactly how immune from

oversight the

tribal casinos really are, and what, if anything, state and federal

govts

are doing now to tie up all the loose ends.

It is obvious these casinos are regulated in some fashion. It may be
minimal and/or ineffectual but many are limited by how and what games
they may run and whether they are able to operate at all. I would be
curious to hear from an authoritative source exactly what function
the states and the feds play. I was in Oklahoma recently and had the
opportunity to see a bit of it's nascent native american gaming
industry. I visited with the understanding that there would be
blackjack available, but was told by locals that the tables had been
pulled by the Feds due to "irregularities." What remained were slot
machines (no VP) which possessed the amusing fiction of a small
secondary graphic of numbered ping pong balls bouncing and dropping
like a bingo game... as if slot machines weren't random and
capricious enough. Governmental regulation can be the only
explanation for this idiocy. LOL

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Lawrence Boxer" <ljboxer@e...> wrote:

cmayhem2001 wrote: “It is obvious these casinos are regulated in some
fashion. . . . “was told by locals that the tables had been pulled by the
Feds due to "irregularities."

“Locals” are not much of a source. The federal law and subsequent compacts
with the states are. The classic case is Foxwoods. The Pequots are allowed
to run the games that are operated in other institutions in Connecticut. A
special exception is slot machines. That is why the tribe pays a percentage
of revenues only from the slots and why only those figures are reported.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Locals" are not much of a source. The federal law and subsequent

compacts

with the states are.

Which is exactly why I stated, "I would be
curious to hear from an authoritative source exactly what function
the states and the feds play." Are you that authoritative source? :wink:

The classic case is Foxwoods. The Pequots are allowed
to run the games that are operated in other institutions in

Connecticut. A

special exception is slot machines. That is why the tribe pays a

percentage

of revenues only from the slots and why only those figures are

reported.

So it seems you are saying that they are infact regulated as to which
games they may run by what the state allows currently... Other items
to be negotiated or litigated? This may explain the need for the
bingo graphic on a perfectly "good" slot machine in Oklahoma. It
might also explain why only certain table games are allowed in
Wisconsin.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "MHS" <siaassociates@m...> wrote: