I have always beleived that a game, if negative MUST eventually lose
and that a game, if positive MAY eventually win.
With all the math discussion, NO ONE has indicated that MultiStrike is
positive. Therefore, it will eventually be a LOSER.
Fun to play, very high variance, terribly expensive in that 20 coins
are lost 7 out of 8 tries, etc.
Why not try Megabucks? One pull can change your life.
Elliott Shapiro wrote:
I have always beleived that a game, if negative MUST eventually lose
and that a game, if positive MAY eventually win.With all the math discussion, NO ONE has indicated that MultiStrike is
positive. Therefore, it will eventually be a LOSER.
Bob Dancer's article indicates that following games and pay-tables are positive, with the following ERs:
Deuces Wild Poker -- 25/15/9/5/3/2 -- 100.88%
Double Bonus Poker -- 10/7/5 -- 100.37%
Double Double Bonus Poker -- 10/6 -- 100.26%
Joke Poker -- 800/200/100/50/20/7/5/3/2/1, KOB -- 100.83%
There are also quite a few games at, or close enough to, 100% that, with cash-back and bounce-back, should be considered positive.
I have only worked the math on JOB-9/6, and after I corrected a math error that was kindly pointed out to me, I have confirmed that its ER does increase to 99.79% and that Bob's +6/+4/+2 strategy is as optimum as can probably be easily produced with WinPoker (i.e., it isn't possible to work with fractions of coins in the paytables).
Now, what I'd really like to know is what MultiStrike does to Variance and Risk of Ruin. Has anyone done any work in that area? Thanks.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
I have been told trhat there is a positive game in Reno, but NONE in
LasVegas, so the figures are meaningless if the game is not available.
These figures also assume PERFECT play, which VARIES at each level.
Whio are we kidding. No one plays perfectly and certainly differently
at each level.
Thease are expensive entertainment channels and unless very luck will
result in losses.
Whwe you play EVERY DAY, you cannot afford the variance or extremly
risky plays and therefore, I think that only the occasional player
will attack these along with the great uninformed masses.
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 11:44:42 -0500, you wrote:
Elliott Shapiro wrote:
I have always beleived that a game, if negative MUST eventually lose
and that a game, if positive MAY eventually win.With all the math discussion, NO ONE has indicated that MultiStrike is
positive. Therefore, it will eventually be a LOSER.Bob Dancer's article indicates that following games and pay-tables are
positive, with the following ERs:Deuces Wild Poker -- 25/15/9/5/3/2 -- 100.88%
Double Bonus Poker -- 10/7/5 -- 100.37%
Double Double Bonus Poker -- 10/6 -- 100.26%
Joke Poker -- 800/200/100/50/20/7/5/3/2/1, KOB -- 100.83%There are also quite a few games at, or close enough to, 100% that, with
cash-back and bounce-back, should be considered positive.I have only worked the math on JOB-9/6, and after I corrected a math
error that was kindly pointed out to me, I have confirmed that its ER
does increase to 99.79% and that Bob's +6/+4/+2 strategy is as optimum
as can probably be easily produced with WinPoker (i.e., it isn't
possible to work with fractions of coins in the paytables).Now, what I'd really like to know is what MultiStrike does to Variance
and Risk of Ruin. Has anyone done any work in that area? Thanks.Cheers.
Bill Velek
vpFREE Links: http://tinyurl.com/a7ga
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
I have been told trhat there is a positive game in Reno, but NONE in
LasVegas, so the figures are meaningless if the game is not available.
I don't know about that Elliot. Last time I was in Vegas, I was playing
Sam's Town's super aces Multistrike ( 100.0 ) on a
6X points day - a positive play. Keep in mind that the NSUD multistrike at
gold coast 99.9 goes very positive on double points days.
regards...Tom
The word "positive" has different meanings for different people.
If you play everyday, you must have a lot more than "positive".
You need more than 101% or preferable 102%.
Assume that you play 30 -40 hours per week. At quarters that is
$30,-40,000 coin in.
If barely positive 0.5%, you earn a little over $150 per week.
Would you take a job at that salary?
With 101.5%, the "salary" would be $450-$600, and although that is not
massive, it is certainly more realistic than the other figure.
Playing at 100.5% is just not enough for a regular player UNLESS you
are playing for very large denominations and that means that you
already have more money than you need.
On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:10:08 -0400, you wrote:
I have been told trhat there is a positive game in Reno, but NONE in
LasVegas, so the figures are meaningless if the game is not available.I don't know about that Elliot. Last time I was in Vegas, I was playing
Sam's Town's super aces Multistrike ( 100.0 ) on a
6X points day - a positive play. Keep in mind that the NSUD multistrike at
gold coast 99.9 goes very positive on double points days.regards...Tom
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
ah ha - your talking about the PRO player needs not the recreational
player - Totally different stories. But, wasn't this discussion
on Multistrike?
So , if I was a pro player then the only ones I would consider are the full
pay MS Deuces machine ( 100.8 + comps ) at the Peppermill in Reno.
regards...Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elliott Shapiro" <elliotts@joimail.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] MultiStrike
The word "positive" has different meanings for different people.
If you play everyday, you must have a lot more than "positive".
You need more than 101% or preferable 102%.
Assume that you play 30 -40 hours per week. At quarters that is
$30,-40,000 coin in.
If barely positive 0.5%, you earn a little over $150 per week.
Would you take a job at that salary?
With 101.5%, the "salary" would be $450-$600, and although that is not
massive, it is certainly more realistic than the other figure.
Playing at 100.5% is just not enough for a regular player UNLESS you
are playing for very large denominations and that means that you
already have more money than you need.On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:10:08 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>> I have been told trhat there is a positive game in Reno, but NONE in
>> LasVegas, so the figures are meaningless if the game is not available.
>>
>I don't know about that Elliot. Last time I was in Vegas, I was playing
>Sam's Town's super aces Multistrike ( 100.0 ) on a
>6X points day - a positive play. Keep in mind that the NSUD multistrike
at
>gold coast 99.9 goes very positive on double points days.
>
>regards...Tom
>
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/