I haven't worked out the answer, but am wondering where you found such an "animal."
--Rita
From: "VP Animal" <vpanimal@comcast.net>
I know this is going to be bad, but does anyone know offhand how much
the EV drops on Multistrike if the RF on level 1 only pays 1250
instead of 4000? Levels 2, 3, and 4 all pay 4000 for the RF. It's
that way on all the games, but 8/5 Bonus Poker would be the likely
play.
I haven't worked out the answer, but am wondering where you found
such an "animal."
--Rita
This one's outside Nevada. It's a standard IGT machine, so I'm sure
this is one of the standard paytables that the casino can choose on
the config menu. Although the tech doesn't actually see the paytable
in the config menu, he only sees the percentages and picks the one
management has told him to set. They may not have realized this
particular game choice shorted the 1st level RF (not that they would
probably care anyway). I find it kind of interesting that IGT would
provide this as one of the standard game profiles. They're getting
more creative.
I knew what the standard EV loss is for the short RF (on a normal
game), but I didn't have the analysis of MS handy to do the
adjustments (i.e. how much weight does the 1st level carry in relation
to the total game EV?). Thought someone might already know what the
PAR sheets show for this one.
Speaking of which, I find it interesting (and scary?) that IGT's
webpages (which casino employees and managers use) have a "Video Poker
Internet Resources" list on each game page, including a link to Dean's
Winpoker page, and also to this VPFREE forum!!!
So whenever posting here, remember that casino personnel are possibly
watching/reacting to what's said here.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, <ves001gas@c...> wrote:
This one's outside Nevada. It's a standard IGT machine, so I'm sure
this is one of the standard paytables that the casino can choose on
the config menu. Although the tech doesn't actually see the
paytable in the config menu, he only sees the percentages and picks
the one management has told him to set. They may not have realized
this particular game choice shorted the 1st level RF (not that they
would probably care anyway). I find it kind of interesting that IGT
would provide this as one of the standard game profiles. They're
getting more creative.I knew what the standard EV loss is for the short RF (on a normal
game), but I didn't have the analysis of MS handy to do the
adjustments (i.e. how much weight does the 1st level carry in
relation to the total game EV?). Thought someone might already know
what the PAR sheets show for this one.
I'll note again that what you've said doesn't quite jive with what
I've been exposed to re: MS. You previously wrote:
... does anyone know offhand how much the EV drops on Multistrike if
the RF on level 1 only pays 1250 instead of 4000? Levels 2, 3, and 4
all pay 4000 for the RF. It's that way on all the games, but 8/5
Bonus Poker would be the likely play.
While I can accept, reluctantly, that there might be a paytable
preinstalled on a MS machine that shorts the RF on the first level
even though 4 Levels/full coin are played, it's difficult for me to
grasp that there's a machine installed out there on which all the
selected paytables are configured this way ... espcially since at
least one of the games is a "full pay" paytable.
So, I'll again question whether you may have popped up a single line
paytable for MS (in which case the royal is shorted), but not a
4-level paytable. Did you actually give it at least one play full
coin to confirm the shorted royal on the first level?
At any rate, if you can pull the Free Ride frequencies from the Help
Screen for the game that you want analyzed (e.g. 8/5 BP) on the
machine that you've observed, I'll provide the ER.
- Harry
I can confirm Harry's answer. If you play the minimum number of hands
for the bonus then you get the bonus on all levels. It is likely that
you are confused by the "See Pays" screen where you can dial in
different number of levels played and it shows the pay values (for all
levels when that many levels are played). If you dial in "1 Level"
then it will show a short coin royal since when only 1 Level is played
the Royal is not bonused. It is easy to view this as the return on
Level 1 which is what I think the original poster did.
Also, it is possible for later games to be set to award the bonus with
different numbers of levels played (more or less than 2). This 2
level requirement was hard coded in the original version but is now
adjustable (with a default value of 2 which is found on most games).
-Larry DeMar
Leading Edge Design
http://www.ledgaming.com
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...> wrote:
> This one's outside Nevada. It's a standard IGT machine, so I'm sure
> this is one of the standard paytables that the casino can choose on
> the config menu. Although the tech doesn't actually see the
> paytable in the config menu, he only sees the percentages and picks
> the one management has told him to set. They may not have realized
> this particular game choice shorted the 1st level RF (not that they
> would probably care anyway). I find it kind of interesting that IGT
> would provide this as one of the standard game profiles. They're
> getting more creative.
>
> I knew what the standard EV loss is for the short RF (on a normal
> game), but I didn't have the analysis of MS handy to do the
> adjustments (i.e. how much weight does the 1st level carry in
> relation to the total game EV?). Thought someone might already know
> what the PAR sheets show for this one.I'll note again that what you've said doesn't quite jive with what
I've been exposed to re: MS. You previously wrote:> ... does anyone know offhand how much the EV drops on Multistrike if
> the RF on level 1 only pays 1250 instead of 4000? Levels 2, 3, and 4
> all pay 4000 for the RF. It's that way on all the games, but 8/5
> Bonus Poker would be the likely play.While I can accept, reluctantly, that there might be a paytable
preinstalled on a MS machine that shorts the RF on the first level
even though 4 Levels/full coin are played, it's difficult for me to
grasp that there's a machine installed out there on which all the
selected paytables are configured this way ... espcially since at
least one of the games is a "full pay" paytable.So, I'll again question whether you may have popped up a single line
paytable for MS (in which case the royal is shorted), but not a
4-level paytable. Did you actually give it at least one play full
coin to confirm the shorted royal on the first level?At any rate, if you can pull the Free Ride frequencies from the Help
Screen for the game that you want analyzed (e.g. 8/5 BP) on the
machine that you've observed, I'll provide the ER.- Harry
Larry & Harry...
I think Larry is probably correct. When I saw this machine pop up in
the casino a few days ago, all I did was check the SEE PAYS screens.
It's exactly as Larry says, that I could scroll through the paytables
for the 4 different levels. Level 1 showed the 1250 RF, levels 2,3,4
showed 4000. It never occurred to me that the 1250 may have only
applied to only level 1 being bet, and that as long as you played
enough coins to get to level 2 or greater, all levels below that would
switch to 4000 coin RFs. I'll confirm that later this week, but I
suspect that's what's going on.
It also makes sense. If they did not create a dis-incentive to play
only a single level on an MS machine, you'd have people tying up MS
machines playing them just like other single-line machines.
Sorry for the confusion. The SEE PAYS info really did throw me off,
and I'm a hard core veteran at this. I can imagine how a lot of
people would be confused. It's the same concept as a triple-play
machine shorting the RFs if only 13 or 14 coins are played. I know a
guy who was feeding the remains of a bucket of quarters into a
triple-play machine a few years back. He accidentally fed only 14
coins instead of the intended 15 (max). After that he just used the
redeal button, not realizing he was betting only 14. Sure enough, he
hit a royal on the 2nd line. 5 coins played on that line, but the RF
only paid 1250. Turns out MAX BET applies to the whole machine (15),
not just individual lines. Similar concept on the MS machines, it
looks like.
Thanks.
I can confirm Harry's answer. If you play the minimum number of
hands
for the bonus then you get the bonus on all levels. It is likely
that
you are confused by the "See Pays" screen where you can dial in
different number of levels played and it shows the pay values (for
all
levels when that many levels are played). If you dial in "1 Level"
then it will show a short coin royal since when only 1 Level is
played
the Royal is not bonused. It is easy to view this as the return on
Level 1 which is what I think the original poster did.Also, it is possible for later games to be set to award the bonus
with
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Larry218" <larry@L...> wrote:
different numbers of levels played (more or less than 2). This 2
level requirement was hard coded in the original version but is now
adjustable (with a default value of 2 which is found on most games).-Larry DeMar
Leading Edge Design
http://www.ledgaming.com
VP Animal wrote:
Sorry for the confusion. The SEE PAYS info really did throw me off,
and I'm a hard core veteran at this. I can imagine how a lot of
people would be confused.
Count me among them upon my first glance aat a MS 
No apology
necessary.
I don't recall the actual paytable screen text, but it's intended to
communicate that the displayed paytable applies to all levels when "x"
levels are played. There's a lot of info in those screens though ...
you kinda feel like you're reading the owners manual for a small
appliance ;).
- H.