vpFREE2 Forums

Multistrike VPquestion - free pass EV and is the card distribution truly random?

I haven't seen this question addressed anywhere, but I feel that it
is important. How can we estimate the EV of Multistrike video poker
when you can get a random "free pass" to the next line up at any
random time? What is the frequencies of these free passes up to the
next line? It would seem that these would seriously affect the EV of
the game, yet I haven't seen anyone quantify this mathematically.

According to the Bob Dancer strategy article, Multistrike 9/6 Jacks
should pay out 99.79% on max coin bet (noticably better than the
99.54% that standard 9/6 Jacks pays out). However, he dismisses
the "free passes" as random events without discussing their
mathematical probability of occuring. How can we quantify the EV of
the game as 99.79% when we can't quantify the randomness of the free
passes? The strongest reason that we all play VP is that we are
completely aware of the odds and the math. We know that the deck is
dealt in a truly random fashion from 1 deck of cards, and thus we can
quantify each exact strategy play perfectly, along with the long run
EV of each play (and thus the game as a whole). Shouldn't the random
event of a "free pass" alter the EV of the game dramatically?
Hopefully there is a simple answer to this question that I am unaware
of, but I hope that people haven't made a big oversight here.

Secondly, and this might sound a little paranoid, but if the game has
a random event built into it like a "free pass" up to the next line,
then are people absolutely sure that the game must conform to
standard Video Poker gaming rules which enforce that the cards must
come from 1 fairly dealt deck? What if a random event like a "free
pass" actually means that the game is more like a slot machine now,
with its own preset randomness to any fashion that the casino
desires. Instead of showing fruit, sevens, and bars like a slot
machine does, it instead just shows playing cards, but they are not
coming from 1 honest randomly distributed deck? Am I way off base
here, or is this a distinct possibility?

I hope that people have a quantifiable answer to this one. If people
just say that the free pass just happens whenever, then how does
anyone really know the EV of the game over the long run.

Anyway, sorry that this went on for so long, but I felt that the
point was important to make.

I also posted this question on the accvp yahoo video poker group, but
I wanted to ask the question here as well.

John

john_chinnock wrote:

I haven't seen this question addressed anywhere, but I feel that it
is important. How can we estimate the EV of Multistrike video poker
when you can get a random "free pass" to the next line up at any
random time?

Actually, John, this has now been discussed enough times here, and even very recently at that, that I presume that you must be fairly new. Anyway, the frequency of the random 'Free Rides' are given on every machine on the paytable screen. If you want to see how the math works out from there, you can visit a page on my site: http://velek.com/ms

I'm not going to get into it any further than that on this post because it has been thoroughly discussed ... and I'm sure it will be again.

Cheers.

Bill Velek

for 9/6 jacks or better multistrike i get er=.9979, variance=19.78
      
level 4, max er strategy
hand freq prob win er variance
rf 64.345748 2.47583E-05 1600 0.039613228 63.22353349
sf 284.08995 0.000109309 100 0.010930909 1.049999928
4k 6140.1617 0.002362546 50 0.118127283 5.445374292
fh 29919.766 0.011512207 18 0.207219728 2.950486416
fl 28626.273 0.011014511 12 0.132174129 1.103461462
st 29184.676 0.011229367 8 0.089834937 0.40548735
3k 193489.19 0.074448698 6 0.44669219 1.196618292
2p 335990.7 0.129278903 4 0.517115613 0.52184346
job 557697.91 0.214585029 2 0.429170058 1.78555E-05
zip 1417562.9 0.545434671 0 0 2.161882416
sum 2598960.012 1 1.990878076 78.05870497
      
level 3, no freeride, +2 strategy
hand freq prob win er variance
rf 60.841077 2.34098E-05 801.9908781 0.018774428 14.91266555
sf 197.5009 7.59923E-05 51.99087808 0.003950905 0.18168214
4k 6158.7797 0.002369709 26.99087808 0.063960535 1.448485397
fh 30039.482 0.01155827 10.99087808 0.127035538 1.483390076
fl 26692.694 0.010270529 7.990878076 0.082070544 0.973589666
st 23057.326 0.008871751 5.990878076 0.053149578 0.731304981
3k 194836.93 0.074967267 4.990878076 0.374152491 5.941070222
2p 338805.12 0.130361806 3.990878076 0.520258072 10.17695185
job 578474.37 0.222579173 2.990878076 0.665707168 17.55817891
zip 1400637 0.538922105 0 0 1.964105524
sum 2598960.044 1.000000012 1.909059261 55.37142431
      
level 3, freeride (6.4%), max er strategy
hand freq prob win er variance
rf 64.345748 2.47583E-05 801.9908781 0.019855905 15.72914713
sf 284.08995 0.000109309 51.99087808 0.005683075 0.250136915
4k 6140.1617 0.002362546 26.99087808 0.063767182 1.32931216
fh 29919.766 0.011512207 10.99087808 0.126529265 1.314959835
fl 28626.273 0.011014511 7.990878076 0.088015612 0.959815366
st 29184.676 0.011229367 5.990878076 0.067273769 0.888088621
3k 193489.19 0.074448698 4.990878076 0.371564376 5.811382918
2p 335990.7 0.129278903 3.990878076 0.515936341 10.21710906
job 557697.91 0.214585029 2.990878076 0.641797659 17.5968652
zip 1417562.9 0.545434671 1.990878076 1.085893929 47.44015952
sum 2598960.012 1 2.986317114 101.5369767
      
level 3 er= .936x 1.909059261 +.064x 2.986317114 = 1.978003764
level 3 var= .936x 55.37142431 +.064x 101.5369767 = 58.32601967
      
level 2, no freeride, +4 strategy
hand freq prob win er variance
rf 63.458326 2.44168E-05 401.9780038 0.009815023 3.880629675
sf 190.05973 7.31291E-05 26.97800376 0.001972878 0.044962384
4k 5749.5423 0.002212247 14.47800376 0.032028925 0.401133739
fh 28652.268 0.011024513 6.478003764 0.071416836 0.748309742
fl 25975.581 0.009994606 4.978003764 0.049753186 0.608227236
st 22094.108 0.008501134 3.978003764 0.033817544 0.498801081
3k 180102.38 0.069297865 3.478003764 0.241018235 4.042435571
2p 321611.13 0.123746086 2.978003764 0.368516311 7.238372776
job 630557.7 0.242619239 2.478003764 0.601211387 14.35172898
zip 1383963.8 0.532506769 0 0 1.058001552
sum 2598960.027 1.000000006 1.409550324 32.87260273
      
level 2, freeride (7%), max er strategy
hand freq prob win er variance
rf 64.345748 2.47583E-05 401.9780038 0.009952279 3.913882952
sf 284.08995 0.000109309 26.97800376 0.002948941 0.061832769
4k 6140.1617 0.002362546 14.47800376 0.034204945 0.37520094
fh 29919.766 0.011512207 6.478003764 0.074576121 0.718634748
fl 28626.273 0.011014511 4.978003764 0.054830276 0.645460086
st 29184.676 0.011229367 3.978003764 0.044670464 0.657505633
3k 193489.19 0.074448698 3.478003764 0.258932853 4.41317408
2p 335990.7 0.129278903 2.978003764 0.38499306 7.821862175
job 557697.91 0.214585029 2.478003764 0.53174251 13.35351953
zip 1417562.9 0.545434671 1.978003764 1.078871833 35.1561147
sum 2598960.012 1 2.475723283 67.11718762
      
level 2 er= .93x 1.409550324 +.07x 2.475723283 = 1.484182431
level 2 var= .93x 32.87260273 +.07x 67.11718762 = 35.26972367
      
level 1, no freeride, +6 strategy
hand freq prob win er variance
rf 63.345149 2.43733E-05 201.4841824 0.004910828 0.966680631
sf 190.18938 7.3179E-05 13.98418243 0.001023349 0.012365951
4k 5735.8658 0.002206985 7.734182431 0.017069225 0.140148059
fh 28624.889 0.011013978 3.734182431 0.041128204 0.407459571
fl 23950.035 0.009215238 2.984182431 0.027499951 0.327944092
st 18828.521 0.007244637 2.484182431 0.017996999 0.255545462
3k 179986.66 0.069253339 2.234182431 0.154724594 2.444957272
2p 322166.63 0.123959826 1.984182431 0.245958908 4.395656939
job 638848.99 0.245809473 1.734182431 0.426278469 8.785508372
zip 1380564.9 0.531198977 0 0 0.465968707
sum 2598960.025 1.000000005 0.936590527 18.20223506
      
level 1, freeride (7.7%), max er strategy
hand freq prob win er variance
rf 64.345748 2.47583E-05 201.4841824 0.004988399 0.97411544
sf 284.08995 0.000109309 13.98418243 0.001528598 0.016527218
4k 6140.1617 0.002362546 7.734182431 0.018272359 0.131529134
fh 29919.766 0.011512207 3.734182431 0.042988682 0.409108949
fl 28626.273 0.011014511 2.984182431 0.032869309 0.389076934
st 29184.676 0.011229367 2.484182431 0.027895796 0.402090784
3k 193489.19 0.074448698 2.234182431 0.166331974 2.697730153
2p 335990.7 0.129278903 1.984182431 0.256512929 4.75618594
job 557697.91 0.214585029 1.734182431 0.372129588 8.040316029
zip 1417562.9 0.545434671 1.484182431 0.809524556 20.87550785
sum 2598960.012 1 1.733042191 38.69218843
      
level 1 er= .923x 0.936590527 +.077x 1.733042191 = 0.997917306
level 1 var= .923x 18.20223506 +.077x 38.69218843 = 19.77996147