vpFREE2 Forums

Multi-line volatility

I have always said that multi-line play was very volatile in the short term - that is, you will more often go deeper into your bankroll than on single line - but you get to the long term faster. The volatility seems to go up fast as you go from Triple Play to Ten play - but when you go on up to 50 play or 100 play the volatility seems to slow down some.

  I think of it as the little girl who had one curl, right in the middle of her forehead. When she was good, she was very very good, but when she was bad, she was terrible.

Is this mathematically sound?

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

The volatility seems to

go up fast as you go from Triple Play to Ten play - but when you go

on up to

50 play or 100 play the volatility seems to slow down some.

Is this mathematically sound?

I don't think it is mathematically sound if you are not changing the
denomination of play as you go up in the number of hands. I play
single line and 3-play $'s but when I go to 100-play I always play
nickels. Even so, it is no problem to drop $2K in a couple of hours of
100 line nickel NSUD.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@...> wrote:

Jean might be mixing volatility in an absolute sense, independent of
how much is played, and volatility per fixed volume of play. There's
more of the former and less of the latter as the number of lines
increases.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@...> wrote:
The volatility seems to

go up fast as you go from Triple Play to Ten play - but when you go

on up to

50 play or 100 play the volatility seems to slow down some.

Is this mathematically sound?

I don't think it is mathematically sound if you are not changing the
denomination of play as you go up in the number of hands. I play
single line and 3-play $'s but when I go to 100-play I always play
nickels. Even so, it is no problem to drop $2K in a couple of hours of
100 line nickel NSUD.

I have always said that multi-line play was very volatile in the short
term - that is, you will more often go deeper into your bankroll

than on

single line - but you get to the long term faster. The volatility

seems to

go up fast as you go from Triple Play to Ten play - but when you go

on up to

50 play or 100 play the volatility seems to slow down some.

  I think of it as the little girl who had one curl, right in the

middle of

her forehead. When she was good, she was very very good, but when

she was

bad, she was terrible.

Is this mathematically sound?

Jean, I think you meant statistically, not mathematically.

One mathematician theorizes that the "perfect" number of lines is
about 20. After that the covariance, which is a discussion unto
itself, takes over.

I see the 50-play and 100-play in a quantum manner, although it's the
same analysis as the mathematicians, just phrased in physical terms.
You can't get enough trials (deals) in a reasonable length of time for
the starting hand to have too much weight in the EV process. Consider
this extreme: say you're playing 1 billion line FPDW. You might get to
play 100 deals a year, since it would take at least a full day to play
out one deal. No way you're going to live long enough, and chances are
no matter how big your bankroll is, to get into the long run and
overcome the "short run" volatility.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@...> wrote:

_______________________________________________________________________

paladingaming.net

I think the actual poem about the little girl goes like this. (At
least this is how I'd always heard it.)

The little girl, had a curl, right in the middle of her forehead.
And hen she was good, she was very, very good, but when she was bad,
she was horrid.

"Foreheand" and "horrid" sorta rhyme that way. (It's actually not a
true rhyme but an example of assonance, but anyway, you get the idea.)

Good luck everyone - this is my first post here, but I'll be spending
more time here!

Randy

I have always said that multi-line play was very volatile in the

short

term - that is, you will more often go deeper into your bankroll

than on

single line - but you get to the long term faster. The volatility

seems to

go up fast as you go from Triple Play to Ten play - but when you go

on up to

50 play or 100 play the volatility seems to slow down some.

  I think of it as the little girl who had one curl, right in the

middle of

her forehead. When she was good, she was very very good, but when

she was

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@...> wrote:

bad, she was terrible.

Is this mathematically sound?
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

rlray216 wrote:

"It's actually not a true rhyme but an example of assonance"

I'm probably not the only one who thought "assonance" had something to
do with the nature of being a jerk ...

- H.

Of course, Harry. You've coined a shiny new definition for the word
assonance. It describes a person who combines arrogance and
ass****ism!

I'm glad that the tangy salt air, inhaled on your cruise, did not
dim your wit!

Regards,
-Babe-

···

===============================================
In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

I'm probably not the only one who thought "assonance" had something
to
do with the nature of being a jerk ...

- H.

rlray216 wrote:

"It's actually not a true rhyme but an example of assonance"

rlray216 <rlray216@yahoo.com> wrote:I think the actual poem about the little girl goes like this. (At least this is how I'd always heard it.)
The little girl, had a curl, right in the middle of her forehead.
And hen she was good, she was very, very good, but when she was bad, she was horrid.
"Foreheand" and "horrid" sorta rhyme that way. (It's actually not a true rhyme but an example of assonance, but anyway, you get the idea.)
Good luck everyone - this is my first post here, but I'll be spending more time here! Randy

···

############################
   
  Welcome Randy! Well, you taught me something today! I had to look up that word-- "assonance"--very, interesting. . . .
  "a repetition of vowel sounds" as in Example: fleet feet sweep by sleeping geeks. I often wondered what this "near" rhyme was called. . . now I know!
  Thanks!

Jean H--
   
  You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
  And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go.... Dr. Suess

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

However the nursery rhyme put it - multi-line is usually very very good - or terrible, horrid, and can tempt even the most "spiritual" player to engage in sailor language, at least under one's breath!!!!

I should have explained my question a little more, although some of you did point out what I was looking for.

I am talking about a choice, for example, between Triple Play $5 or Ten Play $1 (or $2) JoB. This isn't a perfect example because the coin-in per hand isn't the same - but let's say there was a weird 10 play machine that full coin was 7.50 a hand. Now we can compare volatility. If I knew I could do this play frequently for a long stretch of time, I would pick the 10-play. I know it would be more volatile in the short term, but I would get to the long term faster.

However, I do this play only every 2-3 months (and it could go away anytime) and, whatever and whenever I play, I am going to stop at $40,000 coin-in per session. I'm not interested in which one would take shorter or longer to do - so the time element isn't a factor. Therefore, even though I enjoy playing Ten Play, I am inclined to play Triple Play, because I would get more dealt hands. (Actually I am tempted to play the same amount of coin-in on a single line - but I do like multi-line so I make a compromise here.)

Anyway, I think the experts who have weighed in on this subject are agreeing with me that multi-line is very volatile in the short run and that the more lines you add, the more extreme it gets - right? So would I be right in saying that someone with a smaller bankroll or an aversion to extreme short-term losses on a play that might not last might choose Triple Play over Ten Play and that would be a wise decision?

I don't have a lot of experience on Ten Play, at least not nearly as much as I have had on Triple Play and Five Play. But from that experience on the latter two, I have noticed the increased volatility even with adding 2 more lines. We have played enough on both to get a few dealt royals so we are probably near the long term EV - but Five Play has seen some monumental losing streaks. There just aren't enough good 10 Play opportunities, especially on the $1 and up, for me to enjoy them any more because the limited experience we have had on them has seen deep cuts into our bankroll. Any math people think that we are doing the unwise thing to take Triple Play over 10 Play when the EV is the same?

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

jackessiebabe wrote:

Of course, Harry. You've coined a shiny new definition for the word
assonance. It describes a person who combines arrogance and
ass****ism!

I'm glad that the tangy salt air, inhaled on your cruise, did not
dim your wit!

It was an extraordinary full body massage at a spa during our first
on-shore excursion in Honduras that put the edge on -- my lithe
attendent's hands were astoundingly strong and she played my back as
if it were an instrument :slight_smile:

At any rate, it didn't take much wit to stay out of the ship casino.
Base machine returns were 95%-97% for $.25-$1 play and the progressive
royal meters never topped 880 credits.

- Harry

(btw, shouldn't that be ass*****ishness? Or are you suggesting that
the condition has a medical basis akin to alcoholism ... don't recall
it being covered in DSM-IV.)

first on-shore excursion in Honduras that put the edge on -- my
lithe
attendent's hands were astoundingly strong and she played my back as
if it were an instrument :slight_smile:

···

- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

.......extraordinary full body massage at a spa during our

=================================================
Hmmmm......Where was Bev when all this fiddling aound was taking
place? I do hope that she was enjoying her own massage!

(btw, shouldn't that be ass*****ishness? Or are you

suggesting thatthe condition has a medical basis akin to
alcoholism ... don't recall it being covered in DSM-IV.)

Well, now that you mention it, this particular condition CAN be
exacerbated by the addition of potent beverages. Since that is the
case, I will stick with my original appellation.

Regards,
-Babe-

jackessiebabe wrote:

Hmmmm......Where was Bev when all this fiddling aound was taking
place? I do hope that she was enjoying her own massage!

She was indeed enjoying an extensive massage/facial/aromatherapy/
reflexology treatment. However, I gathered afterwards that each time
one of my occasional involuntary moans threaded its way upstairs to
her spa room it pulled her back just a bit out of her nirvana :slight_smile:

- H.

Actually no but it seems so. if you mean that it doesnt continue up

I have always said that multi-line play was very volatile in the

short

term - that is, you will more often go deeper into your bankroll

than on

single line - but you get to the long term faster. The

volatility seems to

go up fast as you go from Triple Play to Ten play - but when you

go on up to

50 play or 100 play the volatility seems to slow down some.

  I think of it as the little girl who had one curl, right in the

middle of

her forehead. When she was good, she was very very good, but when

she was

···

at the same rate then yes. check out http://www.jazbo.com/videopoker/nplay.html --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@...> wrote:

bad, she was terrible.

Is this mathematically sound?
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

I think the actual poem about the little girl goes like this. (At
least this is how I'd always heard it.)

The little girl, had a curl, right in the middle of her forehead.
And hen she was good, she was very, very good, but when she was bad,
she was horrid.

"Foreheand" and "horrid" sorta rhyme that way. (It's actually not a
true rhyme but an example of assonance, but anyway, you get the

idea.)

Good luck everyone - this is my first post here, but I'll be

spending

more time here!

Randy

Welcome, Randy. I hope you enjoy and profit from this list. And
because you're new, I'll be especially gentle.

"Forehead" / "horrid" is an example of a near (also called imperfect
or approximate) rhyme that is based on both assonance (vowel sounds
in "for" and "hor") and consonance (the r and d sounds). I suspect
that what you mean by "true" rhyme is perfect (or exact) rhyme in
which all sounds from the initial rhyming vowels til the word's end
are pronounced the same.

Pete (once an English Prof)

or approximate) rhyme that is based on both assonance (vowel sounds
  in "for" and "hor") and consonance (the r and d sounds). I suspect
  that what you mean by "true" rhyme is perfect (or exact) rhyme in
  which all sounds from the initial rhyming vowels til the word's end
  are pronounced the same.

  Pete (once an English Prof)<<

  Pete, I have printed this and it is next to the couch waiting for the questions to appear on Jeopardy!
  Cheers!
  Bonnie

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: paisonvp
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:50 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] XVP: RHYME (WAS: Re: Multi-line volatility)

  >>"Forehead" / "horrid" is an example of a near (also called imperfect
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