vpFREE2 Forums

Multi-Line All-Hands On-The-Deal Progressive VP Question

#1

On multi-line vp machines with an all-hands on-the-deal progressive as
well as separate progressives for each line how should I determine the
proper strategy? Is it (a) based on what the royal pays for the
primary hand only, (b) an average of the total for all the separate
lines (3/5/10), (c) the total for the on-the-deal jackpot divided by
the number of lines, or (d) a combination of (b) and (c) above, i.e.,
add the average of the jackpot for each line to the all-hands total
divided by the number of lines?

Thanx for your help.

#2

al_in_henderson wrote:

On multi-line vp machines with an all-hands on-the-deal progressive as
well as separate progressives for each line how should I determine the
proper strategy? Is it (a) based on what the royal pays for the
primary hand only, (b) an average of the total for all the separate
lines (3/5/10), (c) the total for the on-the-deal jackpot divided by
the number of lines, or (d) a combination of (b) and (c) above, i.e.,
add the average of the jackpot for each line to the all-hands total
divided by the number of lines?

b - Average the individual line meters and use that to drive strategy.
The "Dealt" meter is irrelevant to strategy since it involves the
deal, which takes no more strategy than a modicum of dexterity.

- H.

#3

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

al_in_henderson wrote:
> On multi-line vp machines with an all-hands on-the-deal

progressive as

> well as separate progressives for each line how should I

determine the

> proper strategy? Is it (a) based on what the royal pays for the
> primary hand only, (b) an average of the total for all the

separate

> lines (3/5/10), (c) the total for the on-the-deal jackpot divided

by

> the number of lines, or (d) a combination of (b) and (c) above,

i.e.,

> add the average of the jackpot for each line to the all-hands

total

> divided by the number of lines?

b - Average the individual line meters and use that to drive

strategy.

The "Dealt" meter is irrelevant to strategy since it involves the
deal, which takes no more strategy than a modicum of dexterity.

Harry's answer is the mathematically correct one. You could also
figure in the dealt RF but most of us look at this as pretty
irrelevant since it occurs only once in almost 2 million triple play
hands and even less often in 5/10 play.

However, some people take a different approach and I'm not sure how
to capture it mathematically. They play b) for a while and then base
their future play on their average results. Naturally, this requires
adjusting your strategy after every RF. Clearly, this approach will
tend to be self fulfilling in that it will lead to less RFs (than the
math strategy) when the progressives are high and more RFs when
progressives are low. On the other hand, your play for will tend to
be "more correct" in hindsight.

Dick

#4

In a similar vein, how does one properly calculate the added EV of
dealt-royal progressives? Let me know if the following is correct.

Assume a 25c 3-play with a dealt progressive of $6000. Since 3 royals
have already been accounted for in the base game return, subtract 3
royals from the dealt progressive:

  $6000 - $3000 = $3000

Divide that by the dealt-royal cycle to get the excess amount each
hand is worth:

  $3000/649740 = $0.00462

Then divide that by the total bet-per-hand to arrive at the added EV
percentage the dealt progressive gives:

  $0.00462/$3.75 = 0.00123 = 0.123%

Correct?
.SK56.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al_in_henderson" <nycityal@...> wrote:

On multi-line vp machines with an all-hands on-the-deal
progressive as well as separate progressives for each
line how should I determine the proper strategy?

#5

Wouldn't the dealt royal cycle be the same regardless of how many
lines one plays (ie. occur just as often on both single-line and
multi-line games)?

.SK56.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

Harry's answer is the mathematically correct one. You could also
figure in the dealt RF but most of us look at this as pretty
irrelevant since it occurs only once in almost 2 million triple play
hands and even less often in 5/10 play.

#6

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "spamkiller56" <spamkiller56@...>
wrote:

>
> On multi-line vp machines with an all-hands on-the-deal
> progressive as well as separate progressives for each
> line how should I determine the proper strategy?

In a similar vein, how does one properly calculate the added EV of
dealt-royal progressives? Let me know if the following is correct.

Assume a 25c 3-play with a dealt progressive of $6000. Since 3

royals

have already been accounted for in the base game return, subtract 3
royals from the dealt progressive:

  $6000 - $3000 = $3000

Divide that by the dealt-royal cycle to get the excess amount each
hand is worth:

  $3000/649740 = $0.00462

Then divide that by the total bet-per-hand to arrive at the added EV
percentage the dealt progressive gives:

  $0.00462/$3.75 = 0.00123 = 0.123%

Correct?

There's no reason to subtract the $3K. Otherwise it looks fine.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al_in_henderson" <nycityal@> wrote:

#7

spamkiller56 wrote:

In a similar vein, how does one properly calculate the added EV of
dealt-royal progressives? Let me know if the following is correct.

Assume a 25c 3-play with a dealt progressive of $6000. Since 3 royals
have already been accounted for in the base game return, subtract 3
royals from the dealt progressive:

  $6000 - $3000 = $3000

Divide that by the dealt-royal cycle to get the excess amount each
hand is worth:

  $3000/649740 = $0.00462

Then divide that by the total bet-per-hand to arrive at the added EV
percentage the dealt progressive gives:

  $0.00462/$3.75 = 0.00123 = 0.123%

Correct. In general, to determine how much a winning hand/event
contributes to game return, divide the added payout by the total
wagers over 1 cycle. You've got it here.

- Harry

#8

mroejacks wrote:

There's no reason to subtract the $3K. Otherwise it looks fine.

You subtract the $3K because the desire is to determine how much the
dealt royal meter adds to the game.

Without it, you'd receive $3K when dealt a 3-play royal. You don't
receive that $3K on top of the dealt royal meter, so it must be
substracted to determine what the dealt meter adds to the game.

- H.

#9

Right you are. I was answering the wrong question. I was thinking how
much a dealt royal was worth vs. how much it added to the base game.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

mroejacks wrote:
> There's no reason to subtract the $3K. Otherwise it looks fine.

You subtract the $3K because the desire is to determine how much the
dealt royal meter adds to the game.

Without it, you'd receive $3K when dealt a 3-play royal. You don't
receive that $3K on top of the dealt royal meter, so it must be
substracted to determine what the dealt meter adds to the game.

#10

>
> Harry's answer is the mathematically correct one. You could also
> figure in the dealt RF but most of us look at this as pretty
> irrelevant since it occurs only once in almost 2 million triple

play

> hands and even less often in 5/10 play.

Wouldn't the dealt royal cycle be the same regardless of how many
lines one plays (ie. occur just as often on both single-line and
multi-line games)?

Yes and no. Playing the 650K DEALT hands gets you a TOTAL of 1.95
million "triple play hands" (I used that terminology to differentiate
from dealt hands). Therefore, it takes 3 times as many "triple play
hands" but not 3 times as many DEALT hands.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "spamkiller56" <spamkiller56@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@> wrote:

#11

Understood. Thanks.
.SK56.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

Yes and no. Playing the 650K DEALT hands gets you a TOTAL of 1.95
million "triple play hands" (I used that terminology to differentiate
from dealt hands). Therefore, it takes 3 times as many "triple play
hands" but not 3 times as many DEALT hands.

#12

So, after all this calculation to the thousandth percent ....you basically put your money in and hit the button, ...right?

tk

···

________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#13

It appears as if you either find such calculations a waste of time or
consider a dealt-royal progressive to be insignificant. I do not.

Consider that the dealt-royal on a Boulder Station 25c triple-play was
up to nearly $25,000 early last month. That's an additional 0.9% in
return. Perhaps you consider that to be a trivial addition. I do not.

.SK56.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TKeep123@... wrote:

  So, after all this calculation to the thousandth percent ....you
basically put your money in and hit the button, ...right?