A few now out of town or snowbird friends recieved letters from MS that there had been no activity in their accounts for 9 months. If there were no activity by 7/31/11 the points would be removed. MS offered FP before 6/30 as an incentive to come in.
David
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "David" <d_richheimer@...>
wrote:
A few now out of town or snowbird friends recieved letters from MS
that there had been no activity in their accounts for 9 months. If there
were no activity by 7/31/11 the points would be removed. MS offered FP
before 6/30 as an incentive to come in.
David
Hi,
Recently I was notified that my status of Sagamore had been
downgraded to Wolf because I was not playing each time I came to the
casino and used the facilities....lounge, room, shows. Has anyone else
had this happen to them? I'm also a 3 month snowbird and don't play
during Jan, Feb, and March.. When I do play it's for an entire day and
at least twice a month.. Would appreciate hearing from you.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This place is just no fun anymore.
As has been discussed here recently they have made some changes and are
obviously tightening up on policies and are just no longer interested in
certain players. I use to play regularly at MS and certain Harrahs
properties (no picnic either), and I literally get offers from Harrahs for
20 to 30 times the free play that Mohegan currently sends me. Nice while it
lasted.
Hi,
Recently I was notified that my status of Sagamore had been
downgraded to Wolf because I was not playing each time I came to the
casino and used the facilities....lounge, room, shows. Has anyone else
had this happen to them? I'm also a 3 month snowbird and don't play
during Jan, Feb, and March.. When I do play it's for an entire day and
at least twice a month.. Would appreciate hearing from you.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the new software trips everything: Lounge use, buying gas, using points, swiping for points, promos etc. They are supposed to fix it but as time goes by I am having my doubts. All of those trips adversly affect what you get.
Mel
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, Rio <riosgambling@...> wrote:
This place is just no fun anymore.
As has been discussed here recently they have made some changes and are
obviously tightening up on policies and are just no longer interested in
certain players. I use to play regularly at MS and certain Harrahs
properties (no picnic either), and I literally get offers from Harrahs for
20 to 30 times the free play that Mohegan currently sends me. Nice while it
lasted.>
Hi,
Recently I was notified that my status of Sagamore had been
downgraded to Wolf because I was not playing each time I came to the
casino and used the facilities....lounge, room, shows. Has anyone else
had this happen to them? I'm also a 3 month snowbird and don't play
during Jan, Feb, and March.. When I do play it's for an entire day and
at least twice a month.. Would appreciate hearing from you.Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chris,
That is interesting because the Sagamore requirements are clearly spelled out:
earn 1600 points within the six-month period, and you're a Sagamore. Nowhere
that I can find on the website says that you can be downgraded if they don't
like your activity or play level.
But it does say that complete rules are available at the Players Club booths. I
re-read an old set of rules and it does say that they can do just about anything
regarding a balance, redemption, benefits at their discretion.
I can only assume that they really felt strongly that you were taking advantage
of the bennies without any play at all, for them to downgrade you like that. And
that it probably happened a number of times in a row.
Interestingly, also, is that in the past, one wasn't "tripped" unless you put
your card in a machine - lounge, purchases, restaurants didn't constitute a
trip. Maybe the fact that you used a room was the critical factor, setting up
the expectation of a trip and therefore some play.
My only suggestion is to try to contact your host and plead your case, swearing
that you won't hit & run any more. Maybe you can find out what you need to do to
get that reversed, maybe earn Sagamore for this period to get reinstated.
Hi,
Recently I was notified that my status of Sagamore had been
downgraded to Wolf because I was not playing each time I came to the
casino and used the facilities....lounge, room, shows. Has anyone else
had this happen to them? I'm also a 3 month snowbird and don't play
during Jan, Feb, and March.. When I do play it's for an entire day and
at least twice a month.. Would appreciate hearing from you.
Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wow, you make it sound like MS is being abused by Chris.
Get down on your knees and beg them to allow you to lose $15-30/hour.
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, GURU PERF <guruperf@...> wrote:
Chris,
That is interesting because the Sagamore requirements are clearly spelled out:
earn 1600 points within the six-month period, and you're a Sagamore. Nowhere
that I can find on the website says that you can be downgraded if they don't
like your activity or play level.But it does say that complete rules are available at the Players Club booths. I
re-read an old set of rules and it does say that they can do just about anything
regarding a balance, redemption, benefits at their discretion.I can only assume that they really felt strongly that you were taking advantage
of the bennies without any play at all, for them to downgrade you like that. And
that it probably happened a number of times in a row.Interestingly, also, is that in the past, one wasn't "tripped" unless you put
your card in a machine - lounge, purchases, restaurants didn't constitute a
trip. Maybe the fact that you used a room was the critical factor, setting up
the expectation of a trip and therefore some play.My only suggestion is to try to contact your host and plead your case, swearing
that you won't hit & run any more. Maybe you can find out what you need to do to
get that reversed, maybe earn Sagamore for this period to get reinstated.Hi,
Recently I was notified that my status of Sagamore had been
downgraded to Wolf because I was not playing each time I came to the
casino and used the facilities....lounge, room, shows. Has anyone else
had this happen to them? I'm also a 3 month snowbird and don't play
during Jan, Feb, and March.. When I do play it's for an entire day and
at least twice a month.. Would appreciate hearing from you.Chris
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sagamores get free rooms, Sunday-Thursday; my point was that if you are taking
advantage of a free room, there is a reasonable expectation that you will give
them at least SOME play. I would guess that it is not a computer "glitch", but
rather some human intervention that got him downgraded. The computer will knock
down the quality of the free tickets you get to shows, the nature of gifts you
might be offered in giveaways, and even the amount of free play you get. But to
be knocked down to Wolf, losing free rooms, lounge access - I would bet that
took a human (or at least a host, which is almost a human)
Certainly the game is rigged. Don’t let that stop you; if you don’t bet, you
can’t win. -Lazarus Long
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice,
there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation
to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein
________________________________
Wow, you make it sound like MS is being abused by Chris.
Get down on your knees and beg them to allow you to lose $15-30/hour.
Maybe the fact that you used a room was the critical factor, setting up
the expectation of a trip and therefore some play.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You are right; Not a good idea to stay if your not going to play.
Used to have discussions about burning casinos years ago on the motherboard. Remember several interesting threads as to how far one could push it. But that was back in the day in Vegas, where you could divorce a casino and move-on to the next advantage play.
Not so in New England - yet.
The way I would try to regain Wolf would be to give MS $50K action in one day with a good % of slot machine. If I lost, would then contact my host and seek reinstatement. If I won, would go home happy and try again to have a losing session. Not that hard to do 
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, GURU PERF <guruperf@...> wrote:
Sagamores get free rooms, Sunday-Thursday; my point was that if you are taking
advantage of a free room, there is a reasonable expectation that you will give
them at least SOME play. I would guess that it is not a computer "glitch", but
rather some human intervention that got him downgraded. The computer will knock
down the quality of the free tickets you get to shows, the nature of gifts you
might be offered in giveaways, and even the amount of free play you get. But to
be knocked down to Wolf, losing free rooms, lounge access - I would bet that
took a human (or at least a host, which is almost a human)Certainly the game is rigged. Donât let that stop you; if you donât bet, you
canât win. -Lazarus LongIn theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice,
there is. -Yogi Berra
There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation
to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein________________________________
Wow, you make it sound like MS is being abused by Chris.
Get down on your knees and beg them to allow you to lose $15-30/hour.Maybe the fact that you used a room was the critical factor, setting up
> the expectation of a trip and therefore some play.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The computer spits out a list of people having rooms or seeing shows that are a comp with no play. It is looked at by your host or someone higher up and if they think you are abusing the system there will be consequences. A human makes the decision. They are looking more and more at that kind of behavior. The glory days are over
Mel
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "haaljo" <haaljo@...> wrote:
You are right; Not a good idea to stay if your not going to play.
Used to have discussions about burning casinos years ago on the motherboard. Remember several interesting threads as to how far one could push it. But that was back in the day in Vegas, where you could divorce a casino and move-on to the next advantage play.
Not so in New England - yet.
The way I would try to regain Wolf would be to give MS $50K action in one day with a good % of slot machine. If I lost, would then contact my host and seek reinstatement. If I won, would go home happy and try again to have a losing session. Not that hard to do
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, GURU PERF <guruperf@> wrote:
>
> Sagamores get free rooms, Sunday-Thursday; my point was that if you are taking
> advantage of a free room, there is a reasonable expectation that you will give
> them at least SOME play. I would guess that it is not a computer "glitch", but
> rather some human intervention that got him downgraded. The computer will knock
> down the quality of the free tickets you get to shows, the nature of gifts you
> might be offered in giveaways, and even the amount of free play you get. But to
> be knocked down to Wolf, losing free rooms, lounge access - I would bet that
> took a human (or at least a host, which is almost a human)
>
> Certainly the game is rigged. Donât let that stop you; if you donât bet, you
> canât win. -Lazarus Long
>
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice,
> there is. -Yogi Berra
> There is no such thing as luck. There is only adequate or inadequate preparation
> to cope with a statistical universe. -Robert Heinlein
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Wow, you make it sound like MS is being abused by Chris.
> Get down on your knees and beg them to allow you to lose $15-30/hour.
>
> Maybe the fact that you used a room was the critical factor, setting up
> > the expectation of a trip and therefore some play.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Nearly "everything" now does trigger a trip, including ANY charges on your card. That means if you arrive at night, go to a lounge, but don't play until the next day-- that's 2 days. Play in a live poker tourney (where you are forced to scan your card) that's a trip. User your points in anyway (including when your hosts uses them on your behalf!)-- that's a trip...stick your card in a machine (and have it recognized) for any reason, and well that's a trip, and so on.
It seems that in regards to status, that first they look at your accrued points, and then they (the software actually) downgrade you from the level acheived from your points alone based upon ADT and total value of used comps (compared to ADT). In general, it seems for most people, it's going to take some time before new "careful" ADT-maximzed play will restore your status-- unless a person (host) steps in, or you have big losses.
What stikes me about all this is that I have been told by multiple MS people that, what is going on at MS now is typical of ALL OTHER CASINOS... and that that is why their new software (upgrade) works that way: "it's industry standard". The MS folks are completely wrong here. Yes, some of the things now that trigger trips at MS also trigger them at other casinos... but not the majority of them. So.. you have to be way careful now and (nicely) complain about any policies you don't like.... and gladly offer to take your business elsewhere if they don't address the situation.
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "haaljo" <haaljo@...> wrote:
You are right; Not a good idea to stay if your not going to play.
Used to have discussions about burning casinos years ago on the motherboard. Remember several interesting threads as to how far one could push it. But that was back in the day in Vegas, where you could divorce a casino and move-on to the next advantage play.
Not so in New England - yet.
The way I would try to regain Wolf would be to give MS $50K action in one day with a good % of slot machine. If I lost, would then contact my host and seek reinstatement. If I won, would go home happy and try again to have a losing session. Not that hard to do
So the way to maximize would be to stick your card in a machine a only take it out when absolutely necessary?
In other words habits like pulling the card to see points accumulated, eating, switching machines, and going to the bathroom hurts us?
That may explain why my last 2 night stay with heavy $1 play earned be a big $15 free play and NO shows. What a joke. What is the point of working to qualify for SAG...
I emailed my host and funny, no response.
Chuck
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "cdfsrule" <cdfsrule@...> wrote:
Nearly "everything" now does trigger a trip, including ANY charges on your card. That means if you arrive at night, go to a lounge, but don't play until the next day-- that's 2 days. Play in a live poker tourney (where you are forced to scan your card) that's a trip. User your points in anyway (including when your hosts uses them on your behalf!)-- that's a trip...stick your card in a machine (and have it recognized) for any reason, and well that's a trip, and so on.
It seems that in regards to status, that first they look at your accrued points, and then they (the software actually) downgrade you from the level acheived from your points alone based upon ADT and total value of used comps (compared to ADT). In general, it seems for most people, it's going to take some time before new "careful" ADT-maximzed play will restore your status-- unless a person (host) steps in, or you have big losses.
What stikes me about all this is that I have been told by multiple MS people that, what is going on at MS now is typical of ALL OTHER CASINOS... and that that is why their new software (upgrade) works that way: "it's industry standard". The MS folks are completely wrong here. Yes, some of the things now that trigger trips at MS also trigger them at other casinos... but not the majority of them. So.. you have to be way careful now and (nicely) complain about any policies you don't like.... and gladly offer to take your business elsewhere if they don't address the situation.
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "haaljo" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> You are right; Not a good idea to stay if your not going to play.
>
> Used to have discussions about burning casinos years ago on the motherboard. Remember several interesting threads as to how far one could push it. But that was back in the day in Vegas, where you could divorce a casino and move-on to the next advantage play.
>
> Not so in New England - yet.
>
> The way I would try to regain Wolf would be to give MS $50K action in one day with a good % of slot machine. If I lost, would then contact my host and seek reinstatement. If I won, would go home happy and try again to have a losing session. Not that hard to do
>
>
>
That's not quite what I meant. You can "trigger" a trip only once per slot-day. My advice is that if you are staying 2 days, and you look carefully at your card + gambling related behavior. Very likely, to the casino, your 2-day trip looked like 2 days, so your ADT was half of what it would have been had you not "triggered" a trip one of those days. I recommend that you go way out of your way to avoid turning that overnight stay into a 2-day trip-- by perhaps only gambling on the second "slot day" (after 6am say) and avoiding doing anything that would trigger a trip on the first "slot day". That would mean not going into a lounge, not bying anything, on the first day-- and making sure that when you booked your room, and when you checked in, that it was a real comp (hard to define this, btw, as host themselves don't always know what what that is-- so inquire when you check in).
As per mel's comments... I agree only in part (and spirit). In practice now, it is my understanding that your status (even sachem) is first "computed" entirely by software. no person is involved. If you don't like what you get, you can complain, and your host can put in for a review of sorts, whereby your "cost" (the value of the comps you used) is looked at by a person-- compared to your actually play. If you put enough pressure on them, they will look at individual trips, etc... [All new sachem folks are personally reviewed, btw].
MS is completely aware of all the new "trip triggers". I'm not going to speculate on whether the changes were by design (plan) or by accident (as they claim)-- but either way, it seems they were not expecting all the effects (on so many people) of the changes... and to some degree where suprised by how many people were (at least in the "eyes" of the new software) apperently trying the abuse the system. At least that is what I have been told. I've also been told that they understand my (supposed) issues with no longer getting good Free Play offers, etc, and to be patient. But that's actually just boiler-plate they are saying to everyone who has been screwed. Personaly, I don't care much about the offers per se-- I'd rather have sufficient knowledge of the system so I can work within it, given my habits-- or not. I've asked repeatedly for hard information and I'm still waiting to get it. Perhaps we can, as a group feret out what the actual policies are?
For example, it is my undestanding now that if you make a "free" on-line room reservation (as a sagamore, etc) the way it is booked triggers a trip...which means that if you gamble only on the next slot day, your ADT is going to be effected. Maybe I'm wrong? Anyone have any "data" to offer here?
Likewise, it is my understanding now that if you ask your host to "help someone out" (like get them a room, or a dinner reservations, etc, even if they "pay" real money/points for what they get)-- that also triggers a trip, as they (the host) books that reservation against your play. Of course, officially, that kind of thing isn't even possible-- as you must be on property to use your comps/status in anyway,-- but MS has been doing it as a perk for their best players for years. And if your friend uses any real comp value, that's going to count against you too (add to your "cost", see above). Translation: think twice before asking your host (or any host) for a favor for a friend. It can hurt your theo, and add to your "cost".
Any other "hidden" ADT-effecting / comp-cost stuff you know about?
One more thing-- I get like $15 and sometimes $25 FP now, for >> $100K/day CI. So don't deel bad...
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "chuckn330i" <cnorthrup@...> wrote:
So the way to maximize would be to stick your card in a machine a only take it out when absolutely necessary?
In other words habits like pulling the card to see points accumulated, eating, switching machines, and going to the bathroom hurts us?
That may explain why my last 2 night stay with heavy $1 play earned be a big $15 free play and NO shows. What a joke. What is the point of working to qualify for SAG...
I emailed my host and funny, no response.
Chuck
Excellent Clarification.
Maybe I am not getting screwed after all.
I will be arriving early this coming Friday, seeing show, and staying overnight. I plan to try and hit "my" normal 20-25K each day. It seems the key here is (as always) not to do an abbreviated session on one of the days correct?
How else can I optimize this if I actually want to gamble both days?
Thanks and regards,
Chuck
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "cdfsrule" <cdfsrule@...> wrote:
That's not quite what I meant. You can "trigger" a trip only once per slot-day. My advice is that if you are staying 2 days, and you look carefully at your card + gambling related behavior. Very likely, to the casino, your 2-day trip looked like 2 days, so your ADT was half of what it would have been had you not "triggered" a trip one of those days. I recommend that you go way out of your way to avoid turning that overnight stay into a 2-day trip-- by perhaps only gambling on the second "slot day" (after 6am say) and avoiding doing anything that would trigger a trip on the first "slot day". That would mean not going into a lounge, not bying anything, on the first day-- and making sure that when you booked your room, and when you checked in, that it was a real comp (hard to define this, btw, as host themselves don't always know what what that is-- so inquire when you check in).
As per mel's comments... I agree only in part (and spirit). In practice now, it is my understanding that your status (even sachem) is first "computed" entirely by software. no person is involved. If you don't like what you get, you can complain, and your host can put in for a review of sorts, whereby your "cost" (the value of the comps you used) is looked at by a person-- compared to your actually play. If you put enough pressure on them, they will look at individual trips, etc... [All new sachem folks are personally reviewed, btw].
MS is completely aware of all the new "trip triggers". I'm not going to speculate on whether the changes were by design (plan) or by accident (as they claim)-- but either way, it seems they were not expecting all the effects (on so many people) of the changes... and to some degree where suprised by how many people were (at least in the "eyes" of the new software) apperently trying the abuse the system. At least that is what I have been told. I've also been told that they understand my (supposed) issues with no longer getting good Free Play offers, etc, and to be patient. But that's actually just boiler-plate they are saying to everyone who has been screwed. Personaly, I don't care much about the offers per se-- I'd rather have sufficient knowledge of the system so I can work within it, given my habits-- or not. I've asked repeatedly for hard information and I'm still waiting to get it. Perhaps we can, as a group feret out what the actual policies are?
For example, it is my undestanding now that if you make a "free" on-line room reservation (as a sagamore, etc) the way it is booked triggers a trip...which means that if you gamble only on the next slot day, your ADT is going to be effected. Maybe I'm wrong? Anyone have any "data" to offer here?
Likewise, it is my understanding now that if you ask your host to "help someone out" (like get them a room, or a dinner reservations, etc, even if they "pay" real money/points for what they get)-- that also triggers a trip, as they (the host) books that reservation against your play. Of course, officially, that kind of thing isn't even possible-- as you must be on property to use your comps/status in anyway,-- but MS has been doing it as a perk for their best players for years. And if your friend uses any real comp value, that's going to count against you too (add to your "cost", see above). Translation: think twice before asking your host (or any host) for a favor for a friend. It can hurt your theo, and add to your "cost".
Any other "hidden" ADT-effecting / comp-cost stuff you know about?
One more thing-- I get like $15 and sometimes $25 FP now, for >> $100K/day CI. So don't deel bad...
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "chuckn330i" <cnorthrup@> wrote:
>
> So the way to maximize would be to stick your card in a machine a only take it out when absolutely necessary?
>
> In other words habits like pulling the card to see points accumulated, eating, switching machines, and going to the bathroom hurts us?
>
> That may explain why my last 2 night stay with heavy $1 play earned be a big $15 free play and NO shows. What a joke. What is the point of working to qualify for SAG...
>
> I emailed my host and funny, no response.
>
> Chuck
>
>